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In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

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Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

#61
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a great comment! The approach is very Musk top-to-bottom. You win by being the lightning rod.

You may be interested to know that consensus has flipped several times on this comment, and on every others comment that didnt completely agree with the forced outrage. People are using their heads and finding the perspectives insightful.

PR is a weird topic to discuss on HN. It's basically two groups: one that's been around long enough to have read Paul Graham's Submarine article and one that thinks of PR as a conspiracy theory. To these people, when you talk about your PR agent placing you in articles, you might as well be talking about your CIA handler taking you to meet the grays.

Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

#62
post #5

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, the CEO sounds like a fraudster and has bungled appointments, leaving people disappointed. On the other hand, he did get a decent amount (the website claims 6,000 people over 5 days) of people vaccinated, and has real medical staff on hand: http://web.archive.org/web/20210115174959/https://phillyfigh... (the page has been pulled down), so its not completely fradulent…

> I'm not confident hospitals are doing much better in getting people vaccinated. They're not, Ralph's (SoCal's version of Kroger/Safeway neighborhood grocery stores) just had a lot of their vaccines pulled in LA County [0], which is perhaps the worst place hit by COVID in the US by case-death ratio, and many people who were scheduled for thier vaccine (elderly who are the reason ICUs are at 0% capacity) were just to…

Well stated, and I appreciate your response. People expect that there are detailed plans and the proper way of rolling out the vaccine, but having seen the massive failure of coordinated response in 2020, this is obviously not true. This scrappy response by the team may be flawed and lacked oversight, but its better than waiting around and watching hospitals throw away unused vaccines.

Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right of course but I object to a 22 year old psychology student being characterized as a tech person. At best he's a Musk imitator. The problem isn't with tech people, it's with the sleazeballs using us for cover.

I can’t believe your system allows for something like this to happen. A private organisation run by non-doctors and non-nurses allowed to administer vaccines? WTF?

What percentage of a nurse's training would you say gets used while administering vaccinations?

I don't see at all why that couldn't be unbundled.

(Ok, it's not 100% clear to me that it should, but again, I don't see why it couldn't).

Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

#64

Him taking vaccines home to vaccinate his girlfriend should be its own article, discussing exactly what happened. We’ve already seen in a dozen cities what happens if there are thawed vaccines that day: use them. The rest doesn't seem different enough from whats happening everywhere to really warrant Farley’s PR campaign here to prevent his resignation. Everywhere has bungled scheduling errors or vaccines logistics l…

> I bet the CEO wasn't even wrong about the irrelevant best practice that was cited in this article. The "irrelevant best practice" of observing a freshly-vaccinated person for half an hour to rule out (or promptly respond to, as the case may be) any immediate and acute reactions to the vaccine? Irrelevant ? As in you think that is something healthcare providers should...just not do, as though the human body is a ser…

I don’t have an opinion on that particular part one way or the other. I bet his observations have nothing to do with the controversy in actual reality.

Like I made pretty clear, this article is to save Farley’s political career by denigrating this other founder who isn’t getting a different enough outcome from every other pandemic response organization in every other city. Nobody should care about Philly drama whether it was vaccines or anything else. All of those midatlantic carcasses of a prior civilization are not worth our thoughts for something this petty. They pretty much have to go after character, even the news organization “investigated” and all they found was that the underlying company was... a company. Wow. Let’s reiterate that its a for profit company, the default, just to ruffle the feathers of impressionable people and Europeans.

Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

#65
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right of course but I object to a 22 year old psychology student being characterized as a tech person. At best he's a Musk imitator. The problem isn't with tech people, it's with the sleazeballs using us for cover.

Everything and everyone gets slapped with the term 'tech'. Airbnb is considered a tech company, Casper the mattress company is considered a tech company or at least they act like tech companies. But listings and mattresses have been around for years it's just now 'tech' adds more VC funding. The running joke is that AI actually stands for Anonymous Indian's rather than the tech we wish it to be. It's PR and investors…

And who can forget Juicero

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero

Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

#66
post #12

Maybe this is cultural difference between the UK and the US but who the hell thinks it's ok to be blatantly profiting from a vaccine rollout? Particularly when the vaccine is being provided for free by government. Covering costs is over thing, blatant profiteering is disgusting.

If a for profit organization is able to deliver vaccines in a more efficient manner why shouldn't they be able to make a reasonable profit? Surely that's of significant value to society?

Because it's a magnet for grifters, as evidenced by this article.

Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

#67
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything and everyone gets slapped with the term 'tech'. Airbnb is considered a tech company, Casper the mattress company is considered a tech company or at least they act like tech companies. But listings and mattresses have been around for years it's just now 'tech' adds more VC funding. The running joke is that AI actually stands for Anonymous Indian's rather than the tech we wish it to be. It's PR and investors…

And who can forget Juicero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero

:D ah yes because who didn't want a $699 packet-squeezer with, essentially, DRM built into the business DNA...

Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t believe your system allows for something like this to happen. A private organisation run by non-doctors and non-nurses allowed to administer vaccines? WTF?

> A private organisation run by non-doctors and non-nurses allowed to administer vaccines? WTF? Agreed, in part, but if you only knew what a clusterfuck the underlying system is even with incredibly expensive employer based medical insurance was you'd probably be more open to seeing things like this take palce. And before you start with 'but in my country...' just know I've lived in countries with socialized medicine…

And before you start with 'but in my country...' just know I've lived in countries with socialized medicine, where having to wait months for appointments to see a specialist is the norm, years for a surgery is nearly guaranteed and even needing a Dr's RX for aspirin (Germany!) is needed which is equally absurd to me

Poor overgeneralisation.

I’m in Sydney. We have a hybrid system.

- Insurance is generally affordable (I pay $1200AUD, just over $900USD, a YEAR).

- GP visits are free. There are a few privates that might cost $50++ per consult. But a decent GP that works in the public system can be found.

- Specialist visits are subsidised without needing insurance and are similar cost to a GP consult in the US depending on who you see. Wait times can be long, but your GP will know several specialists whom they trust and can give several referrals. I’ve never waited more than 4 weeks.

- Mental health consults are free with a referral. You get Max 12 free a year.

- Specialist procedures can take many months in the public system. True. But they are available for free. And a free system that saves some lives and gives everyone a shot is better than a private only system that just serves the rich.

- Insurance is affordable so you can enter the private system. Some procedures just cost the excess. This is very quick.

- All billable items must be disclosed upfront. There are no surprises.

- Medication is cheaper.

No system is perfect, but ours are vastly more affordable and effective per dollar than the US system. To argue about waiting for specialist procedures when a GP consultation could cost $100USD without insurance (source: last American I spoke to who visited a doctor in the US) is simply ludicrous. Last year I maxed my mental health allowance, had GP appointments at least once a month and did a range of tests. Total cost: $0. Specialists and hospital: $800-900AUD. Meds: $200AUD. It was a bad year for me. Still way less than a year of US insurance.

Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

#69
post #49

I'll just go out and give a contrarian view. In The Netherlands all this and more happened under direct government supervision. We are on the lowest ladder of vaccinations, the PII of all tested individuals seem to have leaked / be stolen, with a minister in active denial and no view on improvements any time soon. The last time we did a vaccination that went well (H1N1) the army was closely involved for logistics, no…

>This is mostly a hit piece.

What makes that article a "hit piece"?

Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A private organisation run by non-doctors and non-nurses allowed to administer vaccines? WTF? Agreed, in part, but if you only knew what a clusterfuck the underlying system is even with incredibly expensive employer based medical insurance was you'd probably be more open to seeing things like this take palce. And before you start with 'but in my country...' just know I've lived in countries with socialized medicine…

And before you start with 'but in my country...' just know I've lived in countries with socialized medicine, where having to wait months for appointments to see a specialist is the norm, years for a surgery is nearly guaranteed and even needing a Dr's RX for aspirin (Germany!) is needed which is equally absurd to me Poor overgeneralisation. I’m in Sydney. We have a hybrid system. - Insurance is generally affordable (…

> No system is perfect, but ours are vastly more affordable and effective per dollar than the US system. To argue about waiting for specialist procedures when a GP consultation could cost $100USD without insurance (source: last American I spoke to who visited a doctor in the US) is simply ludicrous. Last year I maxed my mental health allowance, had GP appointments at least once a month and did a range of tests. Total cost: $0. Specialists and hospital: $800-900AUD. Meds: $200AUD. It was a bad year for me. Still way less than a year of US insurance.

Agreed, and the Australian system does have a stronger platform to model others off of by the sound of you analysis, but as you said: it too needs reform, and that is extremely needed in the US.

As for your ~$100 estimate, that's really funny try $700 and be on a waiting list(the orthopedic specialist I saw was the head guy for CU Boulder's football team on campus and the Sports Medicine Complex) for months before imaging, most of it was billed to my insurance and I paid $140 on top of a ~$96/week premium for my insurance through my employer and then another $75 for a 'discounted' session of Physical Therapy the same day, and my insurance only covered half the cost of my x-ray images because they deemed more than one an 'elective procedure' even though they were referrals from the ortho to make his concluding assessment on the weakness of my injured side. Which he deemed non-determinable.

They billed me for each and everyone of those images separately but their broken system made it impossible for me to pay for my half of the images, apparently this has its own billing department on campus and seems like it was a 3rd party service, so after several attempts to register via their broken website I gave up and it went into collections as no one ever answered the phone in the billing department at the Medical center on Campus over the Summer when I went.

I ended up just going to a well renown spine specialist in the new year for more images and nerve electrode impulse tests, all for another $250 that ended up with me seeing yet another Ortho specialist (I hope you see where I'm going here with all of this) who recommended me for an MRI due to observable muscular atrophy as a result of possible neural deterioration caused by trauma that I never got in the end as it would be $700 after jumping all the hoops and the insurance finally getting enough paperwork and wasting my time to make it available.

I think you can see why this system bankrupts more people in the US than anything else, so I'm glad a startup is not just talking about about it's grandiose visions and actually took this head on tried to distribute vaccinations during a pandemic. Was it messy, sure, but that's to be expected. They'l learn from this I'm sure.

I really wish them well because if they succeed it could set a much needed precedence for other startups that want to disrupt the medical industrial complex in the US. This is way better than 95% of the BS startups coming out of Silicon Valley with inflated valuations and several rounds of VC funding, and I'm afraid to say includes a lot of YCs alumni.

As for you situation in OZ, all I can say is: got any room for one more? ;)

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