Earlier quoted context omitted.
People can seek capital from whomever they want. But it’s also true that outside capital is useful. If my community has lots of resources and no ideas about how to use them, then the world is better off if I take my resources and find an under-resourced entrepreneur in a less wealthy part of the world to invest in. That’s what capital represents.
Please stop believing you are telling me something that I do not already know. I’ve been following finance for decades. American communities are under financed because of capital extraction to improve margins. It’s a mathematical fact which carries far more weight than your hand wavy generalizations. The extraction has decimated US communities, empowered slave labor across the globe, and entrenched power in hedge fun…
Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility
891–900 of 906 posts
Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility
#892Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, I'm not sure what you're asking. Some kind of admission that the US health field ignored research because "eww, icky Asians?" Evidence that the US health experts knew of the research but are Snidely Whiplash-ish, mustache-twirling evil? As far as I can tell, they're just as confused as any other scientist trying to do their best, with the additional constraint that they have to provide an answer to a questi…
You said > Prior to 2020, most medical professionals believed most viruses, and corona viruses particularly, could not be transported as aerosols. This was a subject of research where the data had not come in. cactus2093 replied > I've also looked into it a little and come to the opposite conclusion. Here is one study from Singapore in 2014 that showed surgical and n95 have about a 68% and 95% efficacy respectively a…
"1) You are being extremely narrow in your focus and saying that you are talking specifically about viruses being transmitted as aerosols (although the overarching topic here is about whether or not masks are effective). And thus, since there was no research specifically about this, then there's no reason to recommend masks. This doesn't address the point that there's research that shows masks are effective against similar kinds of viruses.
"2) You actually are talking about effectiveness of masks and saying that viruses could not be transmitted via aerosol was to say that because they are not shown to be transmitted via aerosol, then there's no evidence that masks would work, in which case, again, we're back to the issue that there was research prior to 2020 that showed masks are effective against similar kinds of viruses."
Backing up a bit...
As far as I've seen, there are three primary routes for infection for respiratory diseases: 1) contaminated surfaces, 2) (large) droplets produced mostly by coughing or sneezing, and 3) (small) aerosol particles produced by normal activities like breathing and speaking.
The normal measures against 1) are avoiding touching possibly contaminated surfaces, washing your hands, and not touching your eyes, mouth, etc. And roughly speaking, that's about all you can do.
The normal measures against 2) are staying distant (i.e. 6ft) and keeping interactions short because the droplets do not remain airborne long, and covering your face when you cough or sneeze. Masks would certainly be helpful in the case of 2), but not especially so because a) the normal measures work fairly well, b) most people do not want to wear a mask[1], c) many people who do wear a mask do not do so correctly, and d) the supplies of medical grade masks were (are?) sketchy. (Both of the links provided are specifically aimed at b) and c), no?)[2] A study of 1000 students at an Australian university is interesting, but the advantage of a) don't necessarily overwhelm b), c), and d).
There are no normal measures against 3). The only useful measures are to avoid all contact with potential carriers, significantly improve indoor ventilation and air filtration (aerosols remain airborne for a very long time), and properly using medically-effective masks when interactions are required. Transmission by asymptomatic carriers is primary, hard epidemiological evidence of 3).
According to (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7322154/), asymptomatic carriers were reported at the end of January and significant confirmation appeared about March (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-1595_article). Shortly after that (April 3), the CDC recommended masks (https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1422).
From your limited choices, my closest meaning is your 1). But,....
Now, put yourself in the place of someone making an official policy recommendation in, say, February or early March. You don't have hard evidence that masks are required, but you do understand that they will provide some marginal benefit. On the other hand, ensuring that masks are worn consistently and correctly is an uphill struggle (as we have seen over the last year). Further, the supply of medical grade masks where their use is required, hospitals for example, is not infinite. Oh, and you want to make the minimally invasive recommendation you can, because you actually aren't out to cause as much damage as possible by, say, killing the economy. Beyond that, you know that at some point you are going to be facing pandemic fatigue, where people stop taking the situation seriously and then things get very bad (as in last summer, last fall, and earlier this winter). What do you do?
As it turns out, they were wrong about some of their assumptions. Being wrong happens. It is not proof of an evil conspiracy or even of a conspiracy of stupidity. It's people who are pretty good at what they do, making what they think are the best choices, and being wrong.
Suggested Reading
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1422
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25616014 (No, really, "The Plague Year" in the New Yorker is probably the best history of the pandemic so far, and explicitly touches on a lot of these issues---including medical professionals saying, "yeah, we were wrong.")
[1] I am talking about the US specifically, not Taiwan, Japan, or anywhere where mask wearing is more common socially.
[2] Everyone wearing pressurized, highly filtered contamination suits at all times would prevent essentially all cases of respiratory disease transmission. But no one is going to push that idea without a really, really good reason.
PS: While writing this, I ran across https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019665532..., which is the first solid, halfway data-backed estimate of the prevalence of asymptomatic carriers: 1.82%
Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility
#893Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "I’ve been following finance for decades." But apparently not HN community. Your user was created 1d ago. :P
Building rep with you all is not a priority of mine I’ve got positions in stocks that go back to the 90s, AAPL @ $5/share, etc. I’m doing fine in real world terms. Rep in a database that can be shutdown whenever is not something to protect
.. What the point of being a poser? Applesauce for 5$ — don’t mean a hhhhill of beans to me.
Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility
#894Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then you haven't been paying attention to WSB. WSB knows full well they will lose everything. We call it Loss Porn and it gets us going. When you see 5,6,7 figures in losses you get desensitised to it. It's a casino, yes we sometimes make money, we call that the first time, you know, the first one is free. Besides the jokes and the memes, Chamath went on CNBC and argued that WSB provided very good due diligence in so…
Haven't been paying attention... It must not be in the news, right? This is more of a niche interest, not getting any attention. Hard to pay attention to. You really have to be focused on WSB subreddit to know what's going on, right? It's really a few key people understand it. Anyways, yeah, GameStop is a great company with a great stock and some evil hedgefund is going to lose billions for trying to manipulate the p…
I claimed that if you have your information about WSB from anyone but yourself, you have most likely been duped in some way or another and that is evident by how you talked about WSB, full of ignorance.
> Anyways, yeah, GameStop is a great company with a great stock and some evil hedgefund is going to lose billions for trying to manipulate the price!
Nobody said GME is a great company. What are the odds the proletariat on reddit throwing money into the fire pit in an attempt to hurt the rich is attempting to con you, and what are the odds somebody who stands to lose billions and already lost is?
gmedd.com, or you know, do your own DD.
Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility
#895Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then you haven't been paying attention to WSB. WSB knows full well they will lose everything. We call it Loss Porn and it gets us going. When you see 5,6,7 figures in losses you get desensitised to it. It's a casino, yes we sometimes make money, we call that the first time, you know, the first one is free. Besides the jokes and the memes, Chamath went on CNBC and argued that WSB provided very good due diligence in so…
What a lot of you are missing is that this isn't happening within your little WSB playground anymore. It's just a regular stock frenzy now, it's not even really all that relevant anymore how it started.
Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility
#896Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think that something like "Elon Musk tweets the word 'bitcoin'" can/should actually be charged as market manipulation? What about people selling their newsletter of stock tips? What about printing an article in Bloomberg suggesting that XYZ is undervalued/overvalued for $reasons? What about some nobody on reddit posting to wsb to say let's go to $321! What about being paid to tell clients what you think they s…
I feel like this question is a trap, but I'm bored, so I'll give it a shot. First off, not all "market manipulation" is illegal. If it was, a company announcing a new product would be "market manipulation", because it impacts the stock price. But I think you're right that the line is definitely grey in a lot of situations. And really, that's why we have courts. > Do you think that something like "Elon Musk tweets the…
> If you want to argue that he doesn't know that his tweets affect the market, the SEC has already determined that it does
The SEC found that as CEO his public statements are considered official announcements, but that doesn’t really say anything about him “being able to affect the market” in general. I believe that would not actually be market manipulation because he was telling the truth - the regulations require fraud or misstatement (lies). They don’t technically require statements to have evidence or even be true, because people can be wrong.
> But note that this is different than saying "GME is going to $1000 because of "
Exactly. Telling other people to invest in something because you believe they can make money at it is not market manipulation so long as you believe what you are telling them.
Where people think WSB could get into trouble is actually purchasing the shares - because what is perhaps illegal is the act of making a trade to drive up the price for short sellers and make them buy back stock - and some of them may have said things that show this intent.
However this version of manipulation is a very unclear concept - the plain reading of the law makes general trading to make money basically illegal, so it has been heavily interpreted by the courts and there is actually a circuit split on whether any otherwise valid trade can be illegal because of intent.
https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/financialregulation/fi...
Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility
#897Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah that’s nice, so at least you can be involved in something where there is no doubt of large scale unfettered manipulation. I guess that certainty is a plus for some.
Do you have any proof of that large scale unfettered manipulation other than some random posts from salty boomers like yourself?
Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility
#898Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel like this question is a trap, but I'm bored, so I'll give it a shot. First off, not all "market manipulation" is illegal. If it was, a company announcing a new product would be "market manipulation", because it impacts the stock price. But I think you're right that the line is definitely grey in a lot of situations. And really, that's why we have courts. > Do you think that something like "Elon Musk tweets the…
Not a trap so much as a way to get your opinions clearly stated in a way that I could follow, instead of back and forthing to define the boundaries. > If you want to argue that he doesn't know that his tweets affect the market, the SEC has already determined that it does The SEC found that as CEO his public statements are considered official announcements, but that doesn’t really say anything about him “being able to…
I believe there is also thought that this concept could get some people in trouble.
There are a fair number of "sounds right but actually aren't" accusations floating around about GME (along with complete garbage[0]); if you know that these are false statements when syaing them (which in some cases is definitely provable), then you could be in a bind.
[0] I think the most striking example of "complete garbage" that I've seen (but unfortunately can't find any more) is a set of claims that Microsoft is going to acquire GameStop to turn all GameStops into XBox E-Sports lounges. I mean, could it theoretically happen, yes, but I don't think that anyone believes that at all. That's the kind of boiler-room style shit that used to be considered clear-cut fraud.
Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility
#899Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not a trap so much as a way to get your opinions clearly stated in a way that I could follow, instead of back and forthing to define the boundaries. > If you want to argue that he doesn't know that his tweets affect the market, the SEC has already determined that it does The SEC found that as CEO his public statements are considered official announcements, but that doesn’t really say anything about him “being able to…
> is not market manipulation so long as you believe what you are telling them. I believe there is also thought that this concept could get some people in trouble. There are a fair number of "sounds right but actually aren't" accusations floating around about GME (along with complete garbage[0]); if you know that these are false statements when syaing them (which in some cases is definitely provable), then you could b…
Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility
#900Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yesterday premarket when Robinhood announced the cessation of trading in these ultra volatile stocks, was there a deep analysis of what led them to that decision? A measured consideration of why they might do that? Of course not. Immediately a false narrative was created that citadel forced them to do it under threat that they would stop their order flow. Had any politician or public figure merely suggested we let th…
> Just look at how Steve Cohen, Lee Cooperman and John Fortt were shamed for raising what I believed to be perfectly legitimate questions. Leon got shamed not for his commentary on the speculation around the stock, but for the complete failure-to-read-the-room commentary on his taxes, commenting on marginal tax rates and "fair shares" as "bullshit": > "This fair share is a bullshit concept. It’s just a way of attacki…
It was beyond "not reading the room." He literally believes that only the people like him are responsible enough to play the market, or even have money at all.