Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#61

Post by isoadventure » Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:09 PM UTC

dan-kruchinin wrote: post #27

Very naive. Do you know anything about immigration policy in different countries? Do you really think that foreign governments are waiting you with open arms? For them you're just useless foreigner if they can't get profit from you. You may be profitable if 1) Foreign country need high qualified specialists. If you one of them you could get work permit. 2) You have enough money to open your own business there. (actua…

Very negative. Curious as to where you get your expertise. From my (admittedly limited) research, immigration for skilled workers is easy if not encouraged. Take for example, NZ, which lists hundreds of "qualified" jobs on their immigration site that will get you fast-tracked toward 2+ year documents.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#62

Post by rms » Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:10 PM UTC

byrneseyeview wrote: post #34

briansmith wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Although if you're worried that the US is a police state, you might not like it there." That is putting it mildly. It is illegal to possess chewing gum there. Vandalism is punishable by torture.

'Punishable by torture' is ridiculous. Caning is rarely used, and I would probably prefer it to a prison sentence. But again, this is a matter of preference. If you love being an antisocial asshole, Singapore will be hell for you until they kick you out (if they let you in). If you're a responsible adult, you won't notice the laws because they won't apply to you -- the penalty for vandalism or heroin use or spitting…

>'Punishable by torture' is ridiculous. Caning is rarely used,

By any definition, caning is torture. There's no potential ambiguity, unlike waterboarding. Singapore no longer publishes caning data, but illegal immigration carries a mandatory sentence of caning and more than 10,000 people were arrested for that in 2004.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore

Edit: there is a torture exemption for pain and suffering arising from "lawful sanctions": perhaps caning is excluded from the definition of torture. I guess judicial waterboarding would also be legal. http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htm

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#63

Post by isoadventure » Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:16 PM UTC

uuilly wrote: post #17

Stop reading reddit. Wait a month. See how you feel.

I don't read reddit, but I do read the news.

I shouldn't have mentioned the politics stuff in my post. That confused the issue for some. The top reason for me asking is that I'm just ready for a change. I know every place has its downside, but without ever living anywhere else - how can I know for certain what is important to me?

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#64

Post by isoadventure » Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:22 PM UTC

brk wrote: post #6

The "economy driven by greed" is, in essence, what also makes the US the best place in the world to start and operate a for-profit business. Good luck finding another country that is hospitable to a non-citizen starting a business, presents a ready market (all the Web2.0 stuff aside, it is still helpful to be close to the majority of your initial user base), has a legal system that affords you some protection, and la…

Gosh that's negative. I simply haven't yet worked outside the US, and thought perhaps some countries with national languages other than english might have english-speaking workplaces. Since News.YC has such an international following, I figured that others could answer (and they have). Sheesh.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#65

Post by bluelu » Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:22 PM UTC

ninguem1 wrote: post #49

bluelu wrote: post #35

If you are good and bring in capital, I think probably every country will give you a working permit. Just remember that as US citizen you will always to have to pay taxes in the US even if you work outside the US. (in addition to the taxes you pay in the country you are working in) :)

A lot of countries have tax treaties with the US. So you can deduct the taxes you pay in that country from your US tax. You don't get double taxed. Of course, if you go to a place with very little taxes, you don't get to enjoy that.

Thanks for clarifying. I actually heard that you would get double taxed, but this was probably wrong.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#66

Post by isoadventure » Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:24 PM UTC

alaskamiller wrote: post #23

Have you personally experience the ill effects of the US or is this just from reading Reddit all day? I had the same feeling and took time to travel within the US and disconnect from the Internet. As for finding another place, there are problems with any other places you pick. Can you pick up a high-tech job in Japan without knowing Japanese? Not likely. Japan is also a nifty place to visit but rarely a good place to…

Do you mean "unplug from reddit" or "unplug from the news"? Because while I know doing the latter would make me feel a lot better, I wouldn't want to live in a place where I'd have to do that to feel better.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#67

Post by isoadventure » Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:28 PM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #42

- uuilly is right: Stop reading the news. It's just making you depressed. - The USA has got its problems, but other countries also have their problems. Half the problems that plague the USA also plague the world. (Example: Our housing bubble is also, in part, a global housing bubble -- easy credit can cross national boundaries, and it has!) And many of the problems that are new to the USA are old news in the rest of…

> - You're a web worker All my adult life I've dreamed about doing this. But how many people actually do that? It sounds practical, but in practice, there is really no substitute for presence.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#68

Post by chris_l » Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:34 PM UTC

isoadventure wrote: post #63

uuilly wrote: post #17

Stop reading reddit. Wait a month. See how you feel.

I don't read reddit, but I do read the news. I shouldn't have mentioned the politics stuff in my post. That confused the issue for some. The top reason for me asking is that I'm just ready for a change. I know every place has its downside, but without ever living anywhere else - how can I know for certain what is important to me?

Well seriously, forget about the news too. It's like negativity programming for the brain. See how you feel after a month w/o it.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#69

Post by mdemare » Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:39 PM UTC

isoadventure wrote: post #61

dan-kruchinin wrote: post #27

Very naive. Do you know anything about immigration policy in different countries? Do you really think that foreign governments are waiting you with open arms? For them you're just useless foreigner if they can't get profit from you. You may be profitable if 1) Foreign country need high qualified specialists. If you one of them you could get work permit. 2) You have enough money to open your own business there. (actua…

Very negative. Curious as to where you get your expertise. From my (admittedly limited) research, immigration for skilled workers is easy if not encouraged. Take for example, NZ, which lists hundreds of "qualified" jobs on their immigration site that will get you fast-tracked toward 2+ year documents.

NZ is exceptionally positive toward qualified immigrants.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#70

Post by helveticaman » Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:44 PM UTC

Chile, perhaps. Latin America is pretty insulated from the housing bubble, Chile in particular. It also has these innovative concepts called capitalism and democracy. As an entrepreneur, you barely pay taxes. I've met people who pay whatever you want (because of loopholes) or whatever your con, save VAT, which is at 18%. You can hire anybody, from anywhere on earth, with minimal amounts of immigration bullshit [1]. Engineers cost about the same as they do in India. Weather is as good as SV. On top of that, the elite is largely made up of engineer entrepreneurs, and they run the place. It more free trade agreements than any other country, and is the only Western country with a FTA with China.

However, you're far from big markets, and people are xenophobic, and the universities are not on a par with Stanford or Harvard. Plus, it's not Silicon Valley. Starting a company isn't easy, but it is less hard than it is at a lot of other places. Also, quality is hard to find.

I would never recommend going to another country to start a company because emigrating is starting from scratch, and you might know less Spanish than you think. But if you were really set on going somewhere else, and set on going to Latin America, Santiago's not a bad place to go.

[1] There's a limit: no more than 15% of your employees can be non-Chileans.