Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#821

Post by dmantis » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

est31 wrote: post #390

eternalban wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until CBDCs roll out. Right now, it is your speech and communication. Tomorrow, it will be accessing your money. Then they will have their desired perfectly obedient population.

I've thought CBDCs ensure the opposite? Currently if you have an uninsured account at a bank, and the bank goes bankrupt, your money is gone. With CBDCs it seems to me that the money is truly yours instead of in a currency pegged to the fiat but that can always break.

No, with distributed cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin money is yours. With CDBCs your wallet is managed by your government and not you.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#822

Post by tomstockmail » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:00 PM UTC

soupbowl wrote: post #794

tomstockmail wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with OP here but I've found a lot of people from the Parler/Gab crowd have found Matrix lack of content moderation appealing and have been in channels on the Matrix directory that have all the same content as Parler/Gab. I would recommend the Matrix team start taking content moderation more seriously as my experience is they do not take it seriously. They may want to disable room creation on matrix.org…

Can you give me an example of the things you have seen on matrix that should be moderated? Should matrix devs limit the amount of people that can use their open federated network so they can afford to moderate every e2ee group chat around the globe?

So to clarify, these are rooms that are on matrix.org. I'm not following your statement on limiting opening federated network. I am suggesting that matrix.org stop users with the name "kikedestroyer" on their own instance from connecting to matrix.org rooms and talking about exterminating jews. What KD does on their own instance of matrix is not of my or matrix.org concern.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#823

Post by tomstockmail » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:01 PM UTC

soupbowl wrote: post #788

tomstockmail wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a LOT of channels unmoderated in the matrix directory that could have been reported, so this isn't surprising. I have abuse complaints emailed to your abuse address that have gone unanswered, so I don't believe that you're taking your terms of use seriously. You can find my complaints in your inbox. It's good to know Google is taking action - will send the same complaints to them in the future since that se…

Yeah, we better make sure every corner of the internet is moderated. /s

These are rooms that are on matrix.org directory list. So yes, they should be moderating this content.

If you don't have anything to contribute other than a sarcastic comment that misses the point of my statement then consider not contributing at all.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#824

Post by rightbyte » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

mimi89999 wrote: post #818

alex_reg wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But if you always discount such events as coincidences, you risk remaining blind to emerging patterns.

The pattern is that their reviewers are really bad and the appeal process is almost nonexistent. Improving the quality would probably be a huge cost and they have no real reason to do that.

Having a appearantly random blackbox system is handy when you want it to do shady stuff. Just blame the algorithm!

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#825

Post by mickotron » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

johnisgood wrote: post #790

0df8dkdf wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the difference is Signal is NOT federated, and matrix is. Which make it more like email, harder to censor.

And for the love of God, people should stop calling Signal secure as long as it is tied to a phone number. You cannot get a SIM card in my country without not having it tied to your ID card number, address, and so forth. You are not anonymous on Signal.

They can tell that you got a phone number and use signal. Apart from when you first and last used signal (timestamp), as in sent messages, that's about all the info signal has on you, and can provide. That sounds pretty good. Even if it is tied to a physical identity. The fact that your content is sufficiently encrypted and cannot be tied to your identity, even by signal, means what you say is anonymized.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#826

Post by hutzlibu » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

jancsika wrote: post #675

brettwilcox wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It puts too much pressure on Helpdesk to provide the support needed when you don't have a common path.

This reality should be yelled by a death metal band singer 24/7 at every FOSS developer.

I laughed hard ... but actually no.

That should be yelled at every FOSS evangelist, those people who claim everywhere that no one needs Windows, because Linux has everything Windows has, just better, etc.

We FOSS developers are free to do what we want. Most of us develope mainly for pleasure, not to ease the workload of some corporate helpdesk.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#827

Post by monopoledance » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

nip180 wrote: post #815

monopoledance wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe in "vote with your wallet" kinda dogmas. I mean watch the news right now.. We need regulation and government investment in open tech and software. The App/Play Store are anti-competitive, but Apple and Google have a Duopoly in the mobile market. There can and should be rules regarding this. I don't see how they should be even allowed to profit off these markets. Like at all. Every app there increases…

I’m not typically one to “vote with my wallet”, and I think it’s very impractical to do so with all of big tech. I do however tend to buy products and services that align with my values and shy away from products and services that go against my values. For example, I’d be more inclined to buy a Tesla and install home solar panels then I would be to buy a VW because Tesla is emissions free and VW lied on their emissio…

Tesla right now is ignoring worker rights in Germany. They will learn like Wallmart before, that you cannot roll the same shit here, as you do in America.

Elon Musk is the richest person on the planet. You really do not need to prefer either of those companies for anything but the products they sell. Your decision does not matter.

What matters is single entities like Musk, VW, Bezos, Wallstreet and Gates not having the undemocratic mandate to form the world to their liking, "good" or bad. Nobody should have that much power.

If you want to change the world with money, invest in those who consider having 100$ or 1000$ more or less life changing. Pay for FOSS, invest in local communities. Strengthen the collective.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#828

Post by clusterfish » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

neonate wrote: post #816

clusterfish wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The policies back them into being a monopolistic heavy whether they mean to or not That only happens because they deliberately put themselves in a position of market power. If they didn't have such crazy amounts of power nobody would care about their "policies" misfiring. None of this is accidental in the big picture, we're well past any window of plausible deniability with Google. They can't perpetually claim inco…

I'm not sure what the complaint is there. They grew their business, which is what every business tries to do, nothing unique to Google about that. The interesting question is are they finally becoming a victim of their success. It seems obvious to me that the big tech companies have grown past the size where public interest / public square questions start to kick in, which is why the "it's a private company, they can…

The complaint is, we don't need to allow big tech so much power. Utilities are heavily regulated to prevent monopolistic abuse. Big tech is showing similar "natural monopoly" tendencies and so needs to be reigned in with regulation because free markets are failing here.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#829

Post by LockAndLol » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #660

LockAndLol wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What @throwaway525142 said and you can host your own repo.

Considering their political stance I would not be surprised if they would blocklist some repositories. https://f-droid.org/en/2019/07/16/statement.html

Everything is open-source. They block what they want and you can fork it or recompile it. You don't have that same liberty with Google, the Apple Store, Amazon, Samsung, etc.

On the store that you host you can also choose to enforce whichever rules you like.

Plus, they were talking about Gab there. If you think you're going to write the next Gab or... Pander or Flander or whatever that website was that allowed people to plan storming the US capital, then you can still have your own store.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#830

Post by cmorgan31 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

foolmeonce wrote: post #665

qwertox wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you going to explain that to your manager?

How does your manager explain to you that you must agree to TOS from Google to install apps necessary for your job? In the explanation to a company I see nothing wrong. In the tendency to make employees agree to arbitrary ToSes, I see massive liability that should be dealt with using a massive class action lawsuit against some behemoth. I actually think federated protocols are a get out of jail card for employers sin…

Hello employee,

We have a new corporate policy that removes your access to anything related to O365 by Date. The only way to remediate this issue is to install InTune and the corresponding corporate security office's profile so it can enforce our policy on the device. If you qualify for our corporate device program, we will cover the cost of the device and data plan.

Sincerely, CTO

Honestly, it's very common at the largest public corporations and most corporate r&d groups in the US. It's not like we don't already do black box development or have strict vpn only enforcement rules. I wonder how risk assessment sees these kind of federated protocols because in theory you are right about it reducing liability if they run the system.