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University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

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Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#171

Post by geebee »

choeger wrote: post #60
ssss11 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This pattern of phrase is so condescending, and insulting to those who genuinely choose to enter a profession.

Unfortunately, it contains a kernel of truth. I personally met staffers at my alma mater that worked there after failing to advance in their academic career but being too well connected to not have a safety net.

I disagree that it contains a kernel of truth, though I would agree that it truthfully identifies a malign surface growth that occasionally metastizes and, left unchecked, destroys the kernel.

I certainly agree that there are people who teach because they can't do, but I don't think that teaching because you can't do is even part of the kernel of teaching.

As for admins... this is a huge problem right now. They are threatening to destroy the host. But a healthy host does have a trim, effective, and dedicated group of admins.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#172

Post by laretluval »

jancsika wrote: post #145
inglor_cz wrote: post #12

I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…

> events on the currently hot social justice topics. Namespace collision detected: 1. a lecture series or seminar by a researcher specializing in social justice movements, civil rights leaders, abolitionists, etc. Possibly focusing on insights from newly discovered primary documents. 2. events hosted by any political college organization whose participants may be painted with the derisive term "social justice warrior…

Which of those do you think is more likely to draw a large audience? That's the one that will be more common.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#173

Post by andreilys »

dls2016 wrote: post #125
inglor_cz wrote: post #12

I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…

While I disagree with your framing (only slightly), it has historically been the case that university is where the upper class spends their early 20s with the content of the education not really having a bearing on the direction of the students’ lives. I think we’ve done a pretty good job duplicating this model for the masses! Even down to the alternate justice model inside most universities. Perpetrate a drug or sex…

Even down to the alternate justice model inside most universities. Perpetrate a drug or sexual crime? No big deal, just switch schools and start over!

Except when the police is involved which should be any time the law is broken. You make it seem like colleges are their own oasis of law and order.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#174

Post by micheles »

kleiba wrote: post #101
woofie11 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, let's skip the twenties part. That's a relic of the hyper-competitive academic system. Normality is you start college at 17/18, finish college around age 21/22, and finish a Ph.D around 26. At that point, you take an academic job if you want one and appear qualified. You spend 7 years having fun as an assistant prof, doing what you love, and then, unless you've messed up, you have tenure. You don't have a strin…

Well, let's skip the twenties part. That's a relic of the hyper-competitive academic system. Normality is you start college at 17/18, finish college around age 21/22, and finish a Ph.D around 26. At that point, you take an academic job if you want one and appear qualified. You spend 7 years having fun as an assistant prof, doing what you love, and then, unless you've messed up, you have tenure. And now the German ver…

It is more or less the same in Italy and in most European countries, it is not only Germany.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#175

Post by canjobear »

hntrader wrote: post #13

The part about synergy between faculties is accurate. Having strong pure math academics helps out the various applied math departments in indirect ways that I've seen. This is a shame. Pure math is a discipline with the most out of whack discrepancy between public positive externality and private benefit, even more than in physics. Pure math discoveries often have unexpected downstream benefits decades later as they…

You can look up the salary of any UC employee here. https://ucannualwage.ucop.edu/wage/

Yes, Terence Tao is doing pretty well.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#176

Post by antisthenes »

qzw wrote: post #162
hedberg10 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, administrate.

I don’t know if this attitude is a cause or an effect of the failures in the American education system. In many other countries, especially in Asia, teachers are respected if not outright revered. Their status is often comparable to medical doctors and other professional classes. So people who choose to teach are not seen as unfit to engage in other endeavors. But in America there’s this undercurrent of contempt for…

The attitude is the outcome of the ignorance culture, not the other way around.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#177

Post by morelisp »

chrisseaton wrote: post #96
morelisp wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to repeat my original point: > Pure math makes up two of the seven liberal arts. This is utterly impossible to understand as anything other than a reference the specific medieval seven liberal arts which do historically and practically underpin the definition of the unversity as distinct from other forms of tertiary education, not the "modern" concept of a liberal arts education. Go grind your political ax…

Given that America has a literal 'Hamburger University' I'm not sure you can complain that a British university not having a pure maths department is some kind of dilution of the term. It'd be illegal to call it 'Hamburger University' in the UK for comparison, as 'university' is a protected designation here and it wouldn't meet the standards for a university, while it does in the US. (McDonald's does have the same tr…

If you're suggesting that the University of Leicester sans math department is at least as legitimate a university as Hamburger University, I will agree.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#178

Post by cambalache »

cm2187 wrote: post #87
stablenode wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cm2187: I wonder if you realize that a significant factor in the US scientific prowess is a certain event in the XX century history of Europe which forced a huge number of scientists to move to the US because they weren't 'Aryan enough'. After said XX century event another wave of scientists arrived (or were brought) to the US, only these were 'quite Aryan' but facing career oblivion in Europe due to their past polit…

On your first point, it is certainly the case that many scientists came from abroad, and in fact that is still the case today, you don't need Nazi persecutions for that. But we are talking about whether the academic system produces game changing research, not where the researchers were born (in fact if anything,the fact that people are attracted by this model is a testimony to its effectiveness). As for the 90%, agre…

In Physics the 2 giant contributions from the XX century (Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity) were developed in Europe.

In Mathematics the big highlights of the XX century: the Hilbert Program, the Bourbaki group, computability,the FLT solution were mainly made outside the US.

First satellite? First man in space? USSR

Europe was a big contributor to the first computers: Colossus, Zuse's Z2.

The Germans were pioneers in rocketry and ballistics as it is sadly very well known by the rest of the work.

In Biology: Watson, Crick, Monod,Ian Wilmut,Maynar-Smith made fantastic and foundational contributions

Medicine? Antibiotics,discovery of tetanus vaccine, immunological agents, vitamins, all made outside of the US.

That's not to say that American has not make fantastic contributions, The Apollo program, the invention of the transistor, the invention of the Internet are highlights of American ingenuity and glorious gifts to the rest of the world.

But pretending that all good science is made only in the US and the rest of the world in some sort of scientific backwater is just a sad indictment of the American educational system that formed you.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#180

Post by cambalache »

agumonkey wrote: post #91
kleiba wrote: post #15

I recently read Dijkstra's "On the fact that the Atlantic Ocean has two sides". [1] In vast parts, it's not much more than mildly disguised US-bashing (Dijkstra was always a grumpy old man) but that's not what caught my eye. What did was the fact that he describes the US research landscape as a system that orients itself around short-term projects and industry desires. Dijkstra clearly expresses his contempt for this…

The opposite is also true. I read a book about early electricity discoveries. People in Europe were all about the deep end theories. America.. pragmatism reigned supreme. As long as you can make something out of phenomenon you're good to go. The book said that by the time Edison made a light bulb, European academics were still debating unproven theories.

You should read better researched books
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