521–530 of 540 posts
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Cloudflare helps dictators stay in power, but sure is nice for marketing to roll on “freedom of speech”
That’s the price to pay when you don’t take political stances. The free speech approach is to just leave the dictator’s page up and let opposition pages stay up as well.
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Some people might remember Hotline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotline_Communications Independent forums might be due for a comeback as well, with modern technological amenities
I spent all of high school on hotline servers but it was never very decentralized. Not compared to a real federated protocol. It's client-server where servers register themselves with trackers which keep lists of server and return the list to clients when they ask. KDX is the "modern" open source implementation of the Hotline/Caracho concept. I still think usenet is the way to go. It's a robust federated system. Sure…
It was fun when Trump was banned from Twitter, but now I’m mad about WSB!!
I implore everyone to go re-read all the HN articles about Trump and far-right deplatforming where numerous --highly downvoted-- comments quite correctly predicted what was coming. Trump was "only a test."
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Facebook is no different than any other business in this case. If you walk into a restaurant and you are rude to the waiters or you cause a commotion that restaurant can refuse your service and kick you out. Or heck, maybe they just want to close early. Legal and moral. If you are Black and walk into a restaurant and you are refused service that is both illegal (in the US) and immoral.
I see. What if you walk in and are somebody named wvenable so they kick you out? As you've said, you believe they have that right. What if you walk in and are ginger so they kick you out? Have poor eyesight? Are dressed in the costume of a religion they don't like? Are dressed in the costume of a political ideology they don't like? I'm trying to work out a set of fundamental principals are would distinguish good disc…
I could reverse this and ask your the same type of questions. As a business owner, am I not allowed to have any control over who and what business that I do? If I allow posts on my website, I must allow Nazi hate posts? If I allow images, I must allow all images except those that are illegal? If you're being rude to my workers, I can't turn you away, I just have to take it? If you say yes, I'd like how that is fair to me. If you say no, then that is also arbitrary, right?
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I see. What if you walk in and are somebody named wvenable so they kick you out? As you've said, you believe they have that right. What if you walk in and are ginger so they kick you out? Have poor eyesight? Are dressed in the costume of a religion they don't like? Are dressed in the costume of a political ideology they don't like? I'm trying to work out a set of fundamental principals are would distinguish good disc…
US law has defined a few protected classes (race, color, religion, sex, age, and disability). Is that a perfect list? Probably not. Is it a reasonable legal and moral framework, I think so. Based on that protected class list, you can probably work out my answers to your questions easily. So it's not that arbitrary. I could reverse this and ask your the same type of questions. As a business owner, am I not allowed to…
But what's so different between 2 and 3 or between 4 and 5? I could understand it if you see them as grey areas but it sounds like you're adamant they have no moral requirement to serve ginger people but that it's immoral to refuse short-sighted people. And why are religious and political ideologies distinct?
I don't have much of an answer myself, but I don't think religion should be protected. People are free to change their religion or lie about it to avoid discrimination if they want. Do you agree that excluding Muslims is wrong but excluding (nonviolent) Islamists is a right? How can you even tell the difference?
I wondered if you opinion was based on some philosophy. It seems it's just a copy of what you've absorbed from your culture and suffers from all the same problems.
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That’s the price to pay when you don’t take political stances. The free speech approach is to just leave the dictator’s page up and let opposition pages stay up as well.
It’s not a political stance. Cloudflare is breaking the law by providing services to companies/individuals that fall under US sanctions. It’s not politics here, it’s people’s lives.
This trope has been repeated about nearly everything Donald Trump has said as well regarding policy.
Was supporting CHAZ just politics or people’s lives? Several people were murdered there.
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US law has defined a few protected classes (race, color, religion, sex, age, and disability). Is that a perfect list? Probably not. Is it a reasonable legal and moral framework, I think so. Based on that protected class list, you can probably work out my answers to your questions easily. So it's not that arbitrary. I could reverse this and ask your the same type of questions. As a business owner, am I not allowed to…
I guess your answers are: 1. Have the right 2. Have the right 3. Don't have the right 4. Don't have the right 5. Have the right But what's so different between 2 and 3 or between 4 and 5? I could understand it if you see them as grey areas but it sounds like you're adamant they have no moral requirement to serve ginger people but that it's immoral to refuse short-sighted people. And why are religious and political id…
I'm not sure how you get adamant from my comment. I went out of my way to claim that this description was not perfect. One could argue that ginger falls under "race". I personally don't believe you should deny someone service because of there genetic appearance. I'd go all in on appearance but then you might might have to serve naked people! Everything is grey.
Religion is a grey area too; in some cases it's more equivalent to political believes and in other cases it's more like race. People also mistake appearance and religion all the time.
> Do you agree that excluding Muslims is wrong but excluding (nonviolent) Islamists is a right?
No I don't. People like to claim their persecuted because of who they are rather than what they do and how that impacts others.
Lets be clear, we are talking about Facebook blocking content (actively posted material) that they deem unacceptable. You made this about the who rather than the what and I don't think that applies in this case at all. So we've really gone down this rabbit hole for nothing.
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I guess your answers are: 1. Have the right 2. Have the right 3. Don't have the right 4. Don't have the right 5. Have the right But what's so different between 2 and 3 or between 4 and 5? I could understand it if you see them as grey areas but it sounds like you're adamant they have no moral requirement to serve ginger people but that it's immoral to refuse short-sighted people. And why are religious and political id…
> it sounds like you're adamant they have no moral requirement to serve ginger people I'm not sure how you get adamant from my comment. I went out of my way to claim that this description was not perfect. One could argue that ginger falls under "race". I personally don't believe you should deny someone service because of there genetic appearance. I'd go all in on appearance but then you might might have to serve nake…
> I totally believe that Facebook doesn't have any legal or moral requirement to host anything they don't want to. They could literally just punt me tomorrow because they don't like my name and that's their right.
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>Why would they bother paying? To make super-sure that the currently fashionable unspeakables are well and truly said. Stalinist trolling would have done the job in the past, fascist trolling now. Of course if you can already point at it you might proceed straight to getting some momentum behind the outrage with some astroturfing and making sure there's more than one media story focusing on that very small amount of…
You could, or you could allow the internet to do that bit for you and focus your small team's efforts on much more important things like unwinding trades, securing emergency funding and making excuses to LPs. Forums full of people who've lost a lot of money, are pissed off at a particular company and had a politically incorrect subculture to start off with are not places likely to survive Big Tech's banhammer as ever…
How is this implausible to you?
Do you really think the timing of this is purely coincidental? I mean you will have trolls on both the Democrat and Republican official groups. They aren't going to be shut.
I guess it could be coincidental and incompetent but it's not the highest on my list of the likely.
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> it sounds like you're adamant they have no moral requirement to serve ginger people I'm not sure how you get adamant from my comment. I went out of my way to claim that this description was not perfect. One could argue that ginger falls under "race". I personally don't believe you should deny someone service because of there genetic appearance. I'd go all in on appearance but then you might might have to serve nake…
This is the quote that makes it look like you have a strong opinion on at least an aspect of this topic, including discriminating against people for who they are not what they post. So I thought you might have some unique set of beliefs. Turns out you don't, and see it as a rabbit hole, which is OK and we can stop here. > I totally believe that Facebook doesn't have any legal or moral requirement to host anything the…
In the case of Facebook, they're just offering people a free space to post stuff. They're not obligated to continue to that forever. They don't need a good reason to punt you. But their are situations where they could have a bad reason.
The question is, is this topic a bad reason to punt people? Given the low obligation that Facebook has to host anything -- I don't think so.