Running Universities like a business. A scam and a travesty
University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
131–140 of 236 posts
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
It would be less of an issue if there was an actual free market, instead all unis just max out the student loan and still complain there's not enough money. I'd happily go to a shack if there's good teaching. The US are even more innovative in ripping off students.
I'm always surprised their aren't more US schools that are just academics. They all seem to have football teams and sports stadiums and up market dorms. I went to Exeter. I picked the cheapest accommodation. I was more than happy with the on site sports centre. I wouldn't want to pay double for gold taps and an arena. I think it would be interesting to see how places fared if tuition was linked to rankings. Top 10 ca…
There are more of these schools than the big names with athletic programs. You just never hear about them.
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's part of the MBAization of universities combined with typical company politics (the more people under you => the more important you are => the more you get paid). It's a recipe for a lavishly paid executive class running universities who try to run them like a business.
I'll just throw this out here to put some numbers on this so people understand it's more than just a political narrative. At the University that I went to, Wisconsin, there are 2200 academic staff. (Professors, TAs, Deans, etc). The total number of employees, however, is roughly 21000. Now I understand that this is due to large, operations level bureaucracies that are necessary to pull off something like a University…
"Yes, Minister" has an episode about a hospital with 500 employees and no patients: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAk448volww
The show's creators said: "After inventing this absurdity, we discovered there were six such hospitals (or very large empty wings of hospitals) exactly as we had described them in our episode, notably one in Cambridgeshire in which there was only one patient: the Matron (head of nursing staff) who had fallen over some scaffolding and broken her leg."
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#134I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…
> regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. This is a cheap shot and totally inaccurate. Do you really think UK universities are closing their maths departments so that they can spend more on the humanities?
Some people will only be happy when anything resembling a left-wing point of view is removed from education and the media.
Some of the "ism" culture war teaching in academia is indeed trite and silly.
But it's far less silly than Fox News and the entire right-wing media machinery - which most recently somehow managed to persuade tens of millions of Americans that a valid election was stolen, that Covid is a hoax, and attacking your own political representatives is a valid expression of democracy.
Honestly, compared to that having to pay attention to pronouns or learn something about black history is a complete non-issue.
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll just throw this out here to put some numbers on this so people understand it's more than just a political narrative. At the University that I went to, Wisconsin, there are 2200 academic staff. (Professors, TAs, Deans, etc). The total number of employees, however, is roughly 21000. Now I understand that this is due to large, operations level bureaucracies that are necessary to pull off something like a University…
It could be about budget. It could also be perceived incompetence. If students don’t seem to be getting benefit from education by professors who focus solely on mathematics, then that problem needs to be understood. This is the second time this has happened according to the tweet, and the professors have been unable to defend themselves both times. Maybe someone should offer to assist in improvement of the program. I…
I don’t know anything about this group of professors, but I would assume a good department head could defend and prevent this type of issue. If your superiors continually think you and all your peers are dead weight that’s as much your fault as theirs.
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#136People should note that: * this is a UK university, tuition is limited to about 30k GBP for a (UK standard) 3 year degree. That's 30k total, not per year. Accommodation is extra. * Leicester isn't a particularly good university. It's ranked 77th out of 121. 50th out of 68 for maths [0]. * The department has been put on notice a few times that it needs more to up its income (get more students, get more research grants…
> foreign students (who they can charge more)
The amount of money the uni gets is the same. Overseas pay the full price, domestic students are subsidised and only pay £9k, but the uni gets it in full anyway. And, no, they still take overseas students (with remote studies it's not more difficult, than domestic ones). Imperial's Chem department even filled more places for 1st year than usual.
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#137I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…
> leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics This seems like a smear of people who care about social justice by implication. Why do you suppose they are not interested in education and research?
I think the key word is “hot”. Focusing only on shallow hot topic issues like who uses which bathroom feels good, but universities should be exploring the depths of social justice issues from a more holistic place. I went to university and never had to take a women’s studies class or an African American history class, so I didn’t take one. In fact no courses on diversity were required, I believe that has been to my detriment, and I’d be a much more thoughtful well rounded individual had I taken those courses.
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the current mindset of american universities is commodification of the concept of higher education. Teaching, scholastic tradition and enlightment values are sidelined by values like customer satisfaction, marketing, and money making optimization.
In this case, just let me purchase the fucking credentials without having to follow curriculum at their speed or pay for any of the things that won't benefit me anymore
But! Think of the middlemen! (sorry, middlepersons)
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the current mindset of american universities is commodification of the concept of higher education. Teaching, scholastic tradition and enlightment values are sidelined by values like customer satisfaction, marketing, and money making optimization.
In this case, just let me purchase the fucking credentials without having to follow curriculum at their speed or pay for any of the things that won't benefit me anymore
This mindset is ultimately what many universities are optimizing for. The credential is pretty meaningless if it can simply be purchased, people will catch on quickly enough.
The ideal business is then one that actively inflates the credential's value while lowering the difficulty of achieving it. The best way to do this is to increase selectivity/restrict supply, raise prices, lower difficulty (grade inflation), and increase the time required to get the credential, while providing alternate activities for those who are inclined to do something other than receiving an education.
Heck you can get degree credit by virtue of living in a foreign country via a study abroad program.
The other activities a university may participate in like research, or educating only matter to the extent they enhance the "prestige" of the credential or to benefit the minority of students who value academic rigor more so than the credential.
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#140I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…
While I disagree with your framing (only slightly), it has historically been the case that university is where the upper class spends their early 20s with the content of the education not really having a bearing on the direction of the students’ lives. I think we’ve done a pretty good job duplicating this model for the masses! Even down to the alternate justice model inside most universities. Perpetrate a drug or sex…
Yeah, it's actually funny that the GP's characterization is more aligned with the historical/ancient function of colleges and universities than the current one. For many decades at a time, you could characterize the student body of legendary schools like Oxford as "Bands of bored and inebriated wealthy teenagers."
For the best example, look no further than the St. Scholastica Day Riots, which started with a drunk angry scholar and escalated into a mob riot with nearly 100 casualties. [0] When not rioting against the villagers, Oxford scholars in the 13th and 14th century were prone to riot amongst themselves.
Similar disagreements in the past culminated in lynchings and led to the founding of the University of Cambridge (to avoid more bloodshed from angry villagers, but also in part to avoid accountability for other kerfuffles). So yeah, wealthy teenager daycare with education on the side is nothing new.
Edit: fixed a few historical inaccuracies, I mixed a few events in my head.