University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty • Hacker News Board

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#121

Post by mola » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #12

I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…

I think the current mindset of american universities is commodification of the concept of higher education. Teaching, scholastic tradition and enlightment values are sidelined by values like customer satisfaction, marketing, and money making optimization.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#122

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#123

Post by motohagiography » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

A thought experiment that has a surprising amount of predictive power is to view the universities as a system of single-party rule on the scale of the CCP, where they vie for power internally among themselves, and use the real economy to fund their effective system of sinecures.

Viewed this way, it is purging principled and quantitative thinkers because they can't keep them on as a risk for where the party is going. Straight out of sci-fi, but sometimes experiments can be illuminating.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#124

Post by the_only_law » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

mola wrote: post #121

inglor_cz wrote: post #12

I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…

I think the current mindset of american universities is commodification of the concept of higher education. Teaching, scholastic tradition and enlightment values are sidelined by values like customer satisfaction, marketing, and money making optimization.

In this case, just let me purchase the fucking credentials without having to follow curriculum at their speed or pay for any of the things that won't benefit me anymore

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#125

Post by dls2016 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #12

I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…

While I disagree with your framing (only slightly), it has historically been the case that university is where the upper class spends their early 20s with the content of the education not really having a bearing on the direction of the students’ lives. I think we’ve done a pretty good job duplicating this model for the masses! Even down to the alternate justice model inside most universities. Perpetrate a drug or sexual crime? No big deal, just switch schools and start over!

Takes a lot of admins to recreate the upper class bubble for the poors.

I can’t really blame people for wanting this security for their children. Ultimately I don't think it will change until (at least in the US) we address things like universal healthcare, justice system reform and maybe even a UBI.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#126

Post by imtringued » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #16

inglor_cz wrote: post #12

I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…

> regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. This is a cheap shot and totally inaccurate. Do you really think UK universities are closing their maths departments so that they can spend more on the humanities?

If maths departments have trouble retaining students then yes, absolutely.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#127

Post by foldr » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #126

foldr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. This is a cheap shot and totally inaccurate. Do you really think UK universities are closing their maths departments so that they can spend more on the humanities?

If maths departments have trouble retaining students then yes, absolutely.

You really think the money saved is going to the humanities? Could you provide one example of this actually happening?

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#128

Post by jancsika » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

hedberg10 wrote: post #22

inglor_cz wrote: post #12

I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…

Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, administrate.

> Those who can't do, teach.

Oh, you must mean rubber duck debugging, where a programmer pretends to teach a rubber duck about a bug for the purpose of doing the job of revealing the fix for it in the process.

I absolutely love rubber duck debugging, too!

Do you tend to start a bug fix with it, or do you reserve it for times when you get stuck? I feel like I should use it way more often, or at least way earlier than I tend to. That would probably eliminate a lot of headaches.

Anyway, great to see a fellow rubber duck debugger here on HN! You know I bet if we tried teaching each other about rubber duck debugging we'd reveal even more techniques to become more efficient at doing our work.

So much to talk about! So much to teach and do!

I love HN!

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#129

Post by qwantim1 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #79

pydry wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of the MBAization of universities combined with typical company politics (the more people under you => the more important you are => the more you get paid). It's a recipe for a lavishly paid executive class running universities who try to run them like a business.

I'll just throw this out here to put some numbers on this so people understand it's more than just a political narrative. At the University that I went to, Wisconsin, there are 2200 academic staff. (Professors, TAs, Deans, etc). The total number of employees, however, is roughly 21000. Now I understand that this is due to large, operations level bureaucracies that are necessary to pull off something like a University…

It could be about budget. It could also be perceived incompetence.

If students don’t seem to be getting benefit from education by professors who focus solely on mathematics, then that problem needs to be understood.

This is the second time this has happened according to the tweet, and the professors have been unable to defend themselves both times.

Maybe someone should offer to assist in improvement of the program. It’s probably a fine place to work if they want to stay there this much.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#130

Post by imtringued » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

madpata wrote: post #48

throwaways885 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality is truly a comedy. One day teachers will be a thing of the past in universities.

I can imagine a future in which Universities just pay someone to create online courses which they can reuse over the years and then just keep the teachers for courses which have a practical side (e.g. Robotics, biology/physics/chemistry experiments).

In theory you can just make your presence courses so bad that students are forced to do online courses to actually pass the course.