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Europe's Vaccine Disaster

spiegel.de

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Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#371

Post by HugoDaniel »

oli5679 wrote: post #365
HugoDaniel wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it sound fishy to you when Der Spiegel compares a multi-country federation with multiple-languages and cultures to a single country with 9 million habitants with known shady non-democratic practices (like selling the data of its own citizens to move ahead of the vaccination stack)?

USA has administered 28m vaccines compared to the EU's 12m, despite having a smaller population. I don't have any info on this 'shady non-democratic practice', but the reasons I have seen for other countries getting vaccines earlier is that they committed funds to build up capacity earlier while the EU haggled on price and liability law. I am grateful for vaccine manufacturers for working around the clock to develop,…

It was about Israel. 9m population.

The article uses Israel as the prime example.

There are multiple sources for the deal they made, here is one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-pfiz...

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#372

Post by thetis »

Throwawayaerlei wrote: post #50

Some had faith in the new mRNA technology, while others preferred to rely on more time-tested methods. Sometimes articles hide a great deal in one seemingly innocuous sentence. From what I've learned from Europeans, there's only one vaccine candidate of that nature the EU considered, a Sanofi Pasteur/GlaxoSmithKline combo, the former providing the infamous spike protein, the latter an adjuvant. Everyone expected this…

I just have been sollicitated to test the Janssen/Johnson and Johnson. Seems that it is still in Phase III in Western Europe. I'm not 100% sure to want to participate, split between: ok there is enough vaccine i'll be vaccinated in 3m OR OK i need to do this because we need more vaccines.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#373

Post by mikem170 »

maxerickson wrote: post #154
mikem170 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, then I'm ridiculous, I should have flagged that I removed that statement when I couldn't find a reference, didn't catch that there was followup already. Let's get past that and continue the discussion.

You edited your comment like 6 times there master blaster, I don't believe your characterization of that activity is in good faith and am checking out of this thread.

My bad. You are right that my edits made a mess, I didn't even do a good job of fixing it on my last edit. I didn't know at the time that I removed the Fauci remark that you had already (correctly) pointed out that it was wrong. If anything I should had added an edit to that statement pointing out that it had been correctly discredited. I was fiddling with the edit/update button because I typed too quick, then felt the urge to clarify and remove extraneous material so as not to sidetrack things. I shouldn't have used the edit as a preview feature. I am well reminded that this does a disservice to anyone in the middle of a reply.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#374

Post by FartyMcFarter »

mrtksn wrote: post #362
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you inject the vaccine into your body. Remember the melamine in baby formula scandal? To this day, many Chinese parents are still buying formula from abroad.

Remember the Nestle baby formula scandal? Fraud is not a Chinese-exclusive thing.

Sure. But the comparison to iPhones is irrelevant.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#375

Post by yyyk »

tsimionescu wrote: post #332
yyyk wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not referring to the Pfizer research, I'm referring to the Maccabi paper. The data is explicitly for the first dose and not the second. The paper also mentions the effect starts from day 18, not beforehand - maybe you should read it again. What Maccabi did publish on the second dose, it was in a much more encouraging note. Granted, not a peer reviewed paper, that would be difficult given lack of time. Claiming Ye…

The main point that beagle3 makes is that the Pfizer study actually shows ~89% efficacy starting 12 days after the first dose, which improves to ~90% immediately after the 2nd dose (day 21) and ~95% 7 days later (day 28). The Maccabi study was designed with this comparison in mind: they look at efficacy in days 1-12 and 13-24 after the first dose. They are mainly interested in comparing the Pfizer results for days 13…

You are correct, but this doesn't show a conspiracy like a certain other commenter hints at.

We always knew that the the Pfizer vaccine has a lower chance of preventing transmissions, the original treatment regime was two doses, and we further know that the Pfizer vaccine wasn't originally tested vs B117 and the other mutations and it's quite possible it has lower efficiency vs those.

Still, there's a good chance two doses offer even higher protection, and frankly if all adult population receives only the 'symptomatic' protection the plague will be over as far as Israel is concerned (barring yearly(?) boosters) - hearing there's any protection for asymptomatic infections is heartening.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#376

Post by oli5679 »

HugoDaniel wrote: post #371
oli5679 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA has administered 28m vaccines compared to the EU's 12m, despite having a smaller population. I don't have any info on this 'shady non-democratic practice', but the reasons I have seen for other countries getting vaccines earlier is that they committed funds to build up capacity earlier while the EU haggled on price and liability law. I am grateful for vaccine manufacturers for working around the clock to develop,…

It was about Israel. 9m population. The article uses Israel as the prime example. There are multiple sources for the deal they made, here is one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-pfiz...

Your article is blocked for me because I'm not a subscriber.

I read this one, and Pfizer use of Israel medical data seems reasonable to me although worth being cautious about this type of thing.

There are other examples (UK, US, UAE) that are not taking this data sharing approach and it didn't hinder the process. This doesn't seem too related to EU vaccine woes to me.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news...

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#377

Post by yyyk »

jeofken wrote: post #27
MrRiddle wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, I’m not convinced it’s such a disaster it’s being portayed. Serbia is/was heavily hit by Covid, yet only 12% more people died in 2020 than 5 year average before that. Again, meh.

In Sweden the death rate during 2020 was equal to the average for the last 10 years. We had zero restrictions until a couple of months ago.

See https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.27.21250604v... . There's excess mortality of 9000 people, over 10 times Finland's (and infinitely higher than Norway which has about 0 excess mortality).

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#378

Post by HugoDaniel »

oli5679 wrote: post #376
HugoDaniel wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was about Israel. 9m population. The article uses Israel as the prime example. There are multiple sources for the deal they made, here is one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-pfiz...

Your article is blocked for me because I'm not a subscriber. I read this one, and Pfizer use of Israel medical data seems reasonable to me although worth being cautious about this type of thing. There are other examples (UK, US, UAE) that are not taking this data sharing approach and it didn't hinder the process. This doesn't seem too related to EU vaccine woes to me. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/…

Here is the title of the article you couldn't read:

"Israel moves to head of vaccine queue, offering Pfizer access to country’s health-care database"

Guess who stayed bellow on the vaccine queue?

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#379

Post by anonuser123456 »

TheMechanist wrote: post #199
Throwawayaerlei wrote: post #50

Some had faith in the new mRNA technology, while others preferred to rely on more time-tested methods. Sometimes articles hide a great deal in one seemingly innocuous sentence. From what I've learned from Europeans, there's only one vaccine candidate of that nature the EU considered, a Sanofi Pasteur/GlaxoSmithKline combo, the former providing the infamous spike protein, the latter an adjuvant. Everyone expected this…

Gentlemen, the hole is due to the fact that no company has the large scale productive capacity for the newly discovered COVID-19 vaccine. Ordering earlier and paying more would just have shifted distribution around, and would not have made more doses available. Every vaccination done in the US or the UK means one less vaccine dose for Europe. And that is not "ducking responsibility", it is basic logic - as one cannot…

Your model seems to assume a fixed production capacity? It would seem plausible that if you paid an extra billion or two, companies could find a way to scale up production faster.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#380

Post by mattmanser »

Ulrich2 wrote: post #276
mattmanser wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK actually ordered that vaccine way before the EU, the UK essentially paid for manufacturing to start. EU didn't, and only ordered it after it was clear it would work. 3 months later than the UK. So astrazeneca started manufacturing doses in the UK 3 months ago, but the manufacturing teething problems in the EU factory are 3 months behind. Essentially the EU, at best, are trying to jump the queue, which is very…

Well... maybe not. What the EU suspects is that vaccine that was produced in the EU with EU money was shipped to the UK in December. I have read that even until last week shipments went from the EU to the UK. If so, AZ and/or the UK government are actively cheating the EU. Is it true? I guess time will tell. Good source for latest vaccine news: https://twitter.com/QuentinAries

Some journo sent an email that wasn't answered and suddenly they've "used" a random amount of money?

This is Astrazeneca, with a turnover of $24 BILLION. £336 million is a couple of days turnover for them. The accusation doesn't even stand up to the slightest little bit of scrutiny or common sense.

You shouldn't rely on Twitter for "news".

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