Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#661

Post by olah_1 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #399

Don't forget that F-Droid is a thing, and Android still has at least that much freedom - to install your own software. Who would have thought 30 years ago someone would be saying "People can run any code they want on their computer" as a shocking thing.

F-Droid bans apps for “hate speech” too[1].

Any mastodon app that refused to blacklist Gab got banned from F-Droid or something like that.

It is the perfect example of why I don’t even bother with federated projects. It’s just “wouldn’t it be great if _I_ were in charge?”

If that’s the situation, I’d rather Big Tech be in charge because at least they have some name recognition and hierarchy for decision making. Nobody cares if pizza-witches wrongfully broke terms. With Twitter at least peoples’ ears perk up.

In other words, there’s no rules in the alley. But there are rules in the town square.

[1]: https://reclaimthenet.org/f-droid-bans-gab-app/

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#662

Post by absorber » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:28 PM UTC

brettwilcox wrote: post #491

walrus01 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google may be able to control the Element app on the play store, but at least for the server side there's no way to do that with synapse (the official matrix protocol server side implementation), which is fully open source and distributed directly from the developers.

They are also working on a Go version called Dendrite - https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite The Matrix team is doing a LOT of cool stuff. :)

Yes, but IMO the Matrix team should _really_ focus on Dendrite since Synapse is extremely resource hungry and prevents a lot of people (including me) from running their own servers.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#663

Post by mrec » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

im3w1l wrote: post #656

mrec wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody not on them still gets to vote. If anything, I suspect that making these platforms increasingly unrepresentative will end up hurting pols who pay attention to them, by giving them an increasingly distorted view of public opinion. If you optimize your messaging for Twitter, an actual electorate is going to drop you like third period French.

People will trade off convinience and representativeness. A lot of psychology studies are famously done on students, because it's just so cheap and easy. I think it's very likely they will just say "screw those backwards hillbillies, I bet they are all racist unpersons anyway"

Oh, I'm sure they will. And they'll end up losing elections as a result.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#664

Post by im3w1l » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

mrec wrote: post #663

im3w1l wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will trade off convinience and representativeness. A lot of psychology studies are famously done on students, because it's just so cheap and easy. I think it's very likely they will just say "screw those backwards hillbillies, I bet they are all racist unpersons anyway"

Oh, I'm sure they will. And they'll end up losing elections as a result.

Both sides will. They can't both lose.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#665

Post by foolmeonce » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

qwertox wrote: post #557

acatsdream wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use FDroid though.

How are you going to explain that to your manager?

How does your manager explain to you that you must agree to TOS from Google to install apps necessary for your job?

In the explanation to a company I see nothing wrong. In the tendency to make employees agree to arbitrary ToSes, I see massive liability that should be dealt with using a massive class action lawsuit against some behemoth.

I actually think federated protocols are a get out of jail card for employers since making your job related to owning a car is reasonable, to owning a specific brand of car is not.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#666

Post by zaroth » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

alex_reg wrote: post #641

Arathorn wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We received a generic update at 05:31 UTC confirming that the app had been suspended due to abusive content (Sexual Content and Profanity: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... ); we're following up to explain how Matrix and Element works and get this resolved.

This is probably not a coincidence or an oversight, but rather a "what can we get away with" attempt, similar to previous efforts to remove UBlock Origin. But why? Matrix is tiny and no threat to Google services. I'd personally expect three letter agencies to be involved here. The US government has been aggressively going after encrypted communication for years, with extreme tactics like personal intimidation and sec…

> But why? Matrix is tiny and no threat to Google services.

There is an absolutely unprecedented shift going on as we speak, one of those groundswell events that have the potential to shift usage habits of hundreds of millions of people.

We got a taste just recently with the shift away from WhatsApp based on a TOS update. Imagine arguing last year that ten million users would jump ship based on a TOS change?

Matrix, and services of its ilk, are absolutely an existential threat to Google in the next 20 years.

Don’t forget that Google has all the threat intel you could possibly imagine from their existing analytics platforms. They will see the shift coming before anyone.

I can absolutely see them acting now to try to disrupt the initial rumblings of a seismic event that has the potential to go totally viral and popular sentiment shifts against megacorps.

Killing them gets exponentially harder over the next 6 months if there were a successful campaign across the internet to switch to these services, and 2021 is very close to seeing a very significant grassroots campaign like that truly take off. Certainly the time has never been better and the populace never been more primed to make the move out of the walled gardens.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#667

Post by malwrar » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

Arathorn wrote: post #597

Arathorn wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We received a generic update at 05:31 UTC confirming that the app had been suspended due to abusive content (Sexual Content and Profanity: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... ); we're following up to explain how Matrix and Element works and get this resolved.

We've just published an official blog post updating on the situation at https://element.io/blog/element-on-google-play-store/ which we'll keep updated as things progress.

Kudos on the quality of this post, makes me feel like the project is in level-headed hands!

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#668

Post by zeeone » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

hyperdimension wrote: post #156

zeeone wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your quality of life depends on big tech then I suspect your life is of low quality in the first place.

Different people fall into different lives for all sorts of reasons, not all intentional. Consider having a bit more compassion for others. -- "'It ate his head. Another loser.' She said to the two of them, 'It's easy to win. Anybody can win.'" -- A Scanner Darkly

So, your definition of “different” is someone who uses Big Tech social networks?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#669

Post by ttt0 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #610

waheoo wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm saying true libertarians have been getting ostracised by polite society for years now. I'm a massively left leaning libertarian, if it weren't for its consistently proven failures in practice I would be a commy. But here I am, over the years of commenting online I've been labeled a trump supporter, a Republican, alt right, white, male privileged, white privileged, racist, pseudo intellectual, biggoted, transp…

Aren't libertarians all about the absolute sanctity of private property over all other concerns? How is a pro-business ideology remotely justifying government intervention in the practice and moderation decisions of a private company? Wouldn't the rectification involve the government specifically dictating their business behaviour?

> Aren't libertarians all about the absolute sanctity of private property over all other concerns?

They divide themselves on left-libertarians and right-libertarians. What you're thinking about is right-libertarians, so anarcho-capitalists, minarchists etc.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#670

Post by feanaro » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #465

walrus01 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that can be the full rationale behind whatever got it removed, if that were the case, they'd absolutely have removed Signal quite some time ago.

haven't followed matrix implementation for a while. Last time I checked their e2ee was still not quite ready to deserve that name[1]. is it a solved problem now and is crypto used in matrix now truly e2ee so that it can be comparaed to Signal. Maybe I've missed the research papers suggesting otherwise but it seems comparing Signal w. Matrix is apples and oranges (even when just talking about e2ee and ignoring the cen…

> e.g. the future that we're heading to in the EU is the same as 5/9-eye countries: there will be a "legal" way of encryption and another one that is illegal, all depending if access can be given to 3rd parties / LE...

Why do you say there will be, as if the future is predetermined? Perhaps we should re-evaluate that and help prevent it from happening instead of complacently stating something as if it is a foregone conclusion?

Your words matter here. The way you are using them is helping materialize the future you do not want.