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Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

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Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#281

Post by TriNetra »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #232

Using documentation is fine. You aren't going to solder stuff only by eyeballing the component packaging either. On-line information? That's another question entirely. This would be a more interesting test: can you make a basic webapp (or other type of app representative of your experience) without Internet access ? If you're dealing with an older stack and toolkit, you probably have many books' worth of manuals alre…

I second re docs. VS Intellisense has served me very well for known tech (ASP.NET etc); for new tech I rely on official docs or nutshell style books to be with me. I've created ASPSecurityKit.net [0], that sets up a new web app [1] (API/MVC) with user account related workflows; adding the business features then is easy for me.

In my initial days of programming in school/college, I relied almost entirely on local MSDN library installation (during VB6 days, it used to come in three CDs), to learn VB6 and build apps. With that, I built a multi-lingual word processor, a screen reader and some other nice tools that got me hooked with coding. It was around 2003-2006 and I used to only search on internet whenever I needed to add something not supported out-of-the-box in VB6 like Win32 APIs etc.

0: https://ASPSecurityKit.net 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmUO90JNlvs

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#282

Post by etlandis »

nottorp wrote: post #275

I probably can't start an app for any framework without googling. Except basic console apps. Thing is, you don't start apps every day. In some jobs, not even every year. Whatever's initial setup and not related to the actual functionality you're working on will fade from your mind, and that's good. You can concentrate on the thing you're trying to do then. I do miss offline documentation though.

Well you'd have to download them, but

Mac: Dash (https://kapeli.com/dash)

Mac/Linux/Windows: Zeal (https://zealdocs.org/)

Windows: Velocity (https://velocity.silverlakesoftware.com/)

all support a healthy amount of documentation that you can download and most importantly a very healthy amount of integrations from Vim (https://github.com/KabbAmine/zeavim.vim) to VSCode (https://github.com/deerawan/vscode-dash) - note that on Windows all these apps write to the registry as "Zeal" so remember to uninstall the previous one if you're switching between them and using an integration.

If you just need a searchable docset that can be made available offline, there's also DevDocs (https://devdocs.io/) - just note that downloaded documentation can disappear if you regularly use the same browser for normal internet use - I'd do things like grab a copy of ungoogled chromium and just use it for this site before traveling if you're gonna be offline for a while (alternatively, there's some electron versions out there and you could package it that way for yourself too)

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#283

Post by astura »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #271
Pampleti wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warning: weird analogy is coming up. I learned to write java code (structure, basic io (terminal, file, datastructures) blind like in word or notepad and it would run without errors for a google interview; It is not that much you need to know actually but when you learn it once, it lingers around for quite a long time and it gives you a different feeling of confidence that you actually know java (i was writing java c…

My problem is remembering the syntax of the language I'm in rather than other languages I've learned. To use your analogy; it gets tricky doing push-ups because my body remembers doing crunches and my knees get in the way. Better analogy: I'm learning German at the moment, but my brain keeps "helpfully" supplying the French word whenever I'm mentally grepping for German vocab. Remembering that JS switches need a brea…

Your IDE should take care of that for you.

Disclaimer: I used to write code without internet access every day for years (was in a secured area where internet and phones are not allowed).

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#284

Post by necovek »

II2II wrote: post #279
TeMPOraL wrote: post #232

Using documentation is fine. You aren't going to solder stuff only by eyeballing the component packaging either. On-line information? That's another question entirely. This would be a more interesting test: can you make a basic webapp (or other type of app representative of your experience) without Internet access ? If you're dealing with an older stack and toolkit, you probably have many books' worth of manuals alre…

> Using documentation is fine. You aren't going to solder stuff only by eyeballing the component packaging either. > On-line information? That's another question entirely. This would be a more interesting test: can you make a basic webapp (or other type of app representative of your experience) without Internet access? I would suggest that the type of information is important, rather than the medium. It is not that s…

I've stopped relying on Google to give me reference documentation on searching the function/library name.

I generally go directly to the API reference and do the search there because Google results might not even have it on the first few pages.

I actually get annoyed at being pointed at the StackOverflow question that shares a few keywords with my search, but is completely unrelated otherwise.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#285

Post by GuB-42 »

An interesting approach would be try to code something with only the official documentation and source code of the libraries your are using. No internet except for the git clone.

I like doing that as an exercise. It trains you well for a very common situation for professional developers. You have to work on a project, poorly documented, the original developers left long ago and no one really knows how it works, except maybe for one guy who don't have time to answer your questions. Of course it is internal stuff, so the internet is no help. It is a valuable skill, literally, companies are ready to pay good money to people who can do that.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#286

Post by sys_64738 »

He thing about web development I found is that how most new users try todo something is inevitably insecure, inefficient, or whatever. It’s too complex to memorize all the steps and there’s invariably a module for what you need. Most people have a time crunch so don’t have cycles to write from scratch. If somebody has done what you’re trying to do, and that’s usually the norm, then google will get you to a solution faster. It’s never feels like you do any of your own work at the end of the day as you’re opting and pasting mostly.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#287

Post by astura »

jeena wrote: post #262
colecut wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remain living happily in the old days of PHP, somehow making functioning applications and being paid well. Life is easy and good.

I think I would die from boredom if I had your job doing the same thing which I know how to do over and over again. Wouldn't you just automate something like that with a Factory in Java? Somehow my brain works the exact opposite if I already know how to do something without googling it then it's not interesting anymore and I move on to the next thing outside of my comfort zone.

The fuck?

I guess I know now why every other website pegs my CPU to 100% to slowly display static text and break the browser's back button - professional software engineers are "bored to death" when doing their job so they have to make things "interesting" in order to entertain themselves.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#288

Post by selfhoster11 »

lovemenot wrote: post #235
tannhaeuser wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if its (sic!) 2021 and you still write code using vim and niche languages then you are doing it wrong That's literally what I keep hearing since 30 years lol (for vi proper not vim, that is).

I am guessing you're not a native English speaker. This comment is only precipitated by your use of (sic). If you are going to point out others' mistakes like that, it would be better not to make any yourself. There are many ways to rewrite your grammatically incorrect sentence. Here's one: That's literally what I have been hearing since 30 years ago lol Or another: That's literally what I kept hearing for 30 years l…

Please familiarise yourself with the HN Guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Please don't dismiss comments for grammar or spelling mistakes. These are not substantial criticisms of the argument being made, and are IMO a form of ad-hominem.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#289

Post by stonekyx »

GuB-42 wrote: post #285

An interesting approach would be try to code something with only the official documentation and source code of the libraries your are using. No internet except for the git clone. I like doing that as an exercise. It trains you well for a very common situation for professional developers. You have to work on a project, poorly documented, the original developers left long ago and no one really knows how it works, excep…

> It is a valuable skill, literally, companies are ready to pay good money to people who can do that.

I totally agree that it's a very valuable skill, but just wondering, how would you demonstrate that skill in an interview? I personally find it pretty hard to demonstrate these "soft" skills, and even when I act as an interviewer in those rare cases, I find it hard to tell if a person is equipped with such skills.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#290

Post by joshspankit »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #148
joshspankit wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could probably sell and create this as a “coding reality show” with live camera and screen feed. Maybe a “Big brother season 1” style. I’d watch that.

You'd probably be the only one :-)

Haha maybe. With 5-6 people you could edit things together to be more engaging though
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