Earlier quoted context omitted.
Making the point again that this is not an engineer but a 22-year old psych student.
But the attitude is very ycombinator.
There's a subsect of megalomanial opportunists who are also engineers, no questions there.
In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old
41–50 of 70 posts
Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what if vaccine makers and distributors make a few billion in profits in return for saving the world from economic ruin and millions of deaths (and I'm not talking about the specific company in the OP). Let's pick a more deserving target for outrage.
I'm referring the rollout of the vaccines not the creation. That's a different issue with no easy answer. Again this may just be a cultural difference. Healthcare being free at point of use is a core tenant of the NHS.
core tenet, not tenant
Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that at some point you need to be able to say: "We just don't want person X to ever return in our society.". The big question is how do you implement such a thing? I think the English had the right idea by expelling them though I don't know if such a thing would still work in 2021...
You implement it by putting them in prison for the rest of their lives. You could just cordon off an island Alcatraz style, helicopter drop in food and supplies, and let them figure out their own shit.
You’ve generally described the colonization of Australia by the British.
https://www.digitalpanopticon.org/Convicts_and_the_Colonisat...
Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that at some point you need to be able to say: "We just don't want person X to ever return in our society.". The big question is how do you implement such a thing? I think the English had the right idea by expelling them though I don't know if such a thing would still work in 2021...
Exile is one of the most traditional legal punishments. (Everywhere.) I think a couple of things tend to undermine it in the modern day: - Very free movement between regions. - No norm of distrust for strangers. In a traditional society, when someone new shows up, the default is that nobody trusts them to do anything. Any transaction that doesn't settle immediately can't be done, etc. But modern people are supposed t…
This means exiling people more or less corresponds to screwing over the hapless, trusting society they get exiled to
There are no hapless, trusting societies any longer. The way the criminal justice system works, if we exile these guys running the vaccine scam, the nations we exile them to will immediately deport them back to the US. No one wants the criminals from other nations. So unless your crime is not terribly serious, exile won't work.
It certainly won't work in this instance. This is not some trifling misdemeanor.
Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that at some point you need to be able to say: "We just don't want person X to ever return in our society.". The big question is how do you implement such a thing? I think the English had the right idea by expelling them though I don't know if such a thing would still work in 2021...
Exile is one of the most traditional legal punishments. (Everywhere.) I think a couple of things tend to undermine it in the modern day: - Very free movement between regions. - No norm of distrust for strangers. In a traditional society, when someone new shows up, the default is that nobody trusts them to do anything. Any transaction that doesn't settle immediately can't be done, etc. But modern people are supposed t…
> There is a solution implemented in the US, the sex offender registry, meant to address this exact problem.
Well, you glossed over a lot in that one sentence, namely:
1) Prosecutions are usually plea-bargained in the US, so no proof is required that the accused actually did anything to get on the list.
2) The average person cannot afford a defense, so again the registry might mean they didn't have $100k - $200k for legal fees.
3) How are incorrect entries updated?
4) Since being on that list geo-fences the accused from areas of town, they end up living under bridges on the outskirts of town. Is that what we as a society want, especially given the above?
5) "Sex offender" in the US includes an 18-yo receiving a nude photo from his 17-yo gf, which is the most common category. That's some level of puritanical.
Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old
#46Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exile is one of the most traditional legal punishments. (Everywhere.) I think a couple of things tend to undermine it in the modern day: - Very free movement between regions. - No norm of distrust for strangers. In a traditional society, when someone new shows up, the default is that nobody trusts them to do anything. Any transaction that doesn't settle immediately can't be done, etc. But modern people are supposed t…
This means exiling people more or less corresponds to screwing over the hapless, trusting society they get exiled to There are no hapless, trusting societies any longer. The way the criminal justice system works, if we exile these guys running the vaccine scam, the nations we exile them to will immediately deport them back to the US. No one wants the criminals from other nations. So unless your crime is not terribly…
Exile does not usually remove someone from the country. Greek exiles pretty much just had to leave the city they were exiled from. Chinese exiles had to observe a minimum distance from the point of exile, which was set according to the severity of their crime. The British practice of transporting criminals to other continents is abnormal.
We're talking about someone getting kicked out of Phoenix and moving to Austin.
Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old
#48Him taking vaccines home to vaccinate his girlfriend should be its own article, discussing exactly what happened. We’ve already seen in a dozen cities what happens if there are thawed vaccines that day: use them. The rest doesn't seem different enough from whats happening everywhere to really warrant Farley’s PR campaign here to prevent his resignation. Everywhere has bungled scheduling errors or vaccines logistics l…
> I bet the CEO wasn't even wrong about the irrelevant best practice that was cited in this article.
The "irrelevant best practice" of observing a freshly-vaccinated person for half an hour to rule out (or promptly respond to, as the case may be) any immediate and acute reactions to the vaccine? Irrelevant? As in you think that is something healthcare providers should...just not do, as though the human body is a server that can just be restarted if it crashes?
Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old
#49I'll just go out and give a contrarian view. In The Netherlands all this and more happened under direct government supervision. We are on the lowest ladder of vaccinations, the PII of all tested individuals seem to have leaked / be stolen, with a minister in active denial and no view on improvements any time soon. The last time we did a vaccination that went well (H1N1) the army was closely involved for logistics, not primarily the bureaucracy. The bureaucracy actually had meetings with those in the lead back then and decided against using their experiences. The minister proudly mentioned starting to think about the vaccination policy in December.
My point being ... They came pretty far for a startup 'led by a 22-yr old' (ageism) and seem to have done a lot of things right, primarily starting planning very early. The city of Philadelphia could have fared worse. Perhaps the suggestion of a pivot in the money grab direction is the worst ethically, but I'd like to see more facts. This is mostly a hit piece. Without financial incentives in play, at least in one country professional bureaucrats have fared lots worse than this startup.
Re: In Philadelphia, a scandal erupts over vaccination startup led by 22-year-old
#50I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, the CEO sounds like a fraudster and has bungled appointments, leaving people disappointed. On the other hand, he did get a decent amount (the website claims 6,000 people over 5 days) of people vaccinated, and has real medical staff on hand: http://web.archive.org/web/20210115174959/https://phillyfigh... (the page has been pulled down), so its not completely fradulent…
> On the other hand, he did get a decent amount (the website claims 6,000 people over 5 days) of people vaccinated
For one, the vaccine requires two doses to achieve anything approaching an acceptable level of immunity. So all those people have effectively not been vaccinated yet, and I'm not confident that the organisation will follow up on all their second doses properly (considering that they're already screwing up appointments for elderly people's first shots).
For another, given everything we know (including outright urging to ignore best medical practices) I wouldn't necessarily take as a given that the shots administered were all done so correctly and safely. I suppose it's a question of the staff's ethics vs the CEO's...everything.