University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty • Hacker News Board

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#51

Post by dandanua » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:04 AM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #31

dandanua wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like our civilization has passed its peak and now bouncing back to medieval ages.

If you read historic books you will notice this sentiment has been present almost constantly since antiquity. The fact is you get current state with all its gory details but the past with bad parts filtered out.

Maybe, but something is constantly changing in the worrying direction. Humans are becoming slaves of the tools they build, not vice versa. Our biological abilities fade away in the presence of technological progress. People may fantasy about some cyberpank future, but I have doubts about it. Simpler organisms can't control what is superior to them. And I'm pretty sure general AI is a real thing, at least in the future. So, the confrontation between humans as biological species and tech progress is quite justifiable.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#52

Post by username90 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:06 AM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #35

throwaways885 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be less of an issue if there was an actual free market, instead all unis just max out the student loan and still complain there's not enough money. I'd happily go to a shack if there's good teaching. The US are even more innovative in ripping off students.

I'm always surprised their aren't more US schools that are just academics. They all seem to have football teams and sports stadiums and up market dorms. I went to Exeter. I picked the cheapest accommodation. I was more than happy with the on site sports centre. I wouldn't want to pay double for gold taps and an arena. I think it would be interesting to see how places fared if tuition was linked to rankings. Top 10 ca…

The Principal leaves money on the table if they only do academics. You get paid based on the budget of the organisation you run, and just doing academics for 1000 students obviously needs a smaller budget than doing academics, sports, entertainment, lodging etc for 1000 students.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#53

Post by pydry » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:08 AM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #12

I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…

It's part of the MBAization of universities combined with typical company politics (the more people under you => the more important you are => the more you get paid). It's a recipe for a lavishly paid executive class running universities who try to run them like a business.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#54

Post by robjan » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:08 AM UTC

morelisp wrote: post #21

rambojazz wrote: post #6

A lot of universities do not have a pure math faculty. It can be good or bad, it depends on the goals of the university and which faculties it wants to specialize on.

> A lot of universities do not have a pure math faculty. If true this shocks me. Pure math makes up two of the seven liberal arts. The pure math department at my (US state) university had significantly higher status than the applied one, and this seemed to hold true for the other (also mostly state) universities my friends went to as well. Community colleges and technical schools? Sure. Colleges? OK I guess, if they…

In the UK many of the equivalent to community colleges and technical schools (polytechnics) have been reclassified as universities to attract more funding and prestige

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#55

Post by ssss11 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

hedberg10 wrote: post #22

inglor_cz wrote: post #12

I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…

Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, administrate.

This pattern of phrase is so condescending, and insulting to those who genuinely choose to enter a profession.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#56

Post by woofie11 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:13 AM UTC

anticristi wrote: post #49

kleiba wrote: post #15

I recently read Dijkstra's "On the fact that the Atlantic Ocean has two sides". [1] In vast parts, it's not much more than mildly disguised US-bashing (Dijkstra was always a grumpy old man) but that's not what caught my eye. What did was the fact that he describes the US research landscape as a system that orients itself around short-term projects and industry desires. Dijkstra clearly expresses his contempt for this…

I agree with you analysis, but is this necessarily bad (or rather, is all of this bad)? As a young researcher, my peers and I already noticed the "customer-ification" of academia. Taxpayers are investigating in academia, either via tuition fees or research grants, and expect to see returns: Either more jobs, more competitive national economy or a better life. So far so good. Unfortunately, too much "customer-ificatio…

Well, the underlying problem is high tuition and high faculty salaries. Faculty used to be like a monastery, where scholars could live a simple life to nerd in their topic of nerdhood.

Now, my alma mater pays high-tooting faculty nearly a megabuck, pays typical faculty $180k, has $200 million building projects, yachts, and what-not. Tuition went up multifold too.

I'm more than happy to pay a bunch of nerds $60k per year to have lifetime jobs to sit around and nerd, but if my taxpayer dollars are paying for that monstrosity, it better darned well deliver economic value too.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#57

Post by turbonaut » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:15 AM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #50

cm2187 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have to keep in mind that something like 90% of the technological advances of the XX century were born in US labs. So it’s not that broken.

Well, if technological advances is the only thing you care for, sure, then go ahead and get rid of stuff like pure maths. However, are you sure that these advances would not have been made if the US had a different system? Like I argued before, Europe has pretty much copied the system by now but I don't see much in terms of catching up. Take A.I., for instance: completely dominated by the U.S. and China. Europe? Like…

> Take A.I., for instance: completely dominated by the U.S. and China. Europe?

DeepMind?

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#58

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:16 AM UTC

dandanua wrote: post #51

lmilcin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read historic books you will notice this sentiment has been present almost constantly since antiquity. The fact is you get current state with all its gory details but the past with bad parts filtered out.

Maybe, but something is constantly changing in the worrying direction. Humans are becoming slaves of the tools they build, not vice versa. Our biological abilities fade away in the presence of technological progress. People may fantasy about some cyberpank future, but I have doubts about it. Simpler organisms can't control what is superior to them. And I'm pretty sure general AI is a real thing, at least in the futur…

[deleted]

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#59

Post by hedberg10 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:22 AM UTC

ssss11 wrote: post #55

hedberg10 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, administrate.

This pattern of phrase is so condescending, and insulting to those who genuinely choose to enter a profession.

Those who can't humor, virtue signal.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#60

Post by choeger » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:27 AM UTC

ssss11 wrote: post #55

hedberg10 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, administrate.

This pattern of phrase is so condescending, and insulting to those who genuinely choose to enter a profession.

Unfortunately, it contains a kernel of truth. I personally met staffers at my alma mater that worked there after failing to advance in their academic career but being too well connected to not have a safety net.