Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Europe's Vaccine Disaster

spiegel.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 434 posts

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#271

Post by thepasswordis »

jorvi wrote: post #201
outside1234 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU did not pay as much as the US — and signed the contracts much later. Pfizer is doing the rational actor thing and, given a shortage, prioritizing their highest paying clients. There might also be verbiage in the US contract to this effect. Also, Pfizer is an American company.

> Also, Pfizer is an American company. BioNtech is a German company. If it would come down to national egotism, BioNtech would just kill the licensing deal and Pfizer wouldn't be allowed to produce anything.

>Pfizer wouldn’t be allowed to produce anything.

Pfizer wouldn’t be allowed to stop producing anything.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#272

Post by yyyk »

beagle3 wrote: post #261
yyyk wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well, last night a reputable Israeli HMO posted it’s real world data for Pfizer, and it’s 50% after 18 days and doesnt seem to get much better Their initial results are actually very encouraging[0] in this regard. [0] https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/Hk2URcnku

That is propaganda. The real data is in https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.27.21250612v... and is 50% (not uniformly over age groups, but 50% is a good summary of it all). The Israeli government failed miserably in dealing with covid. They were successful in getting the vaccines (and thanks to the HMOs and no thanks to the government, deploy them quickly) and selling the hopium that this will solve every…

You're mixing up two different datasets. The former deals with first dose effectiveness (which we've always known to be lower - that's why the regiment is two doses), the latter with the full two dose regiment.

Ynet is Yediot, which is either the biggest daily newspaper or the second-biggest depending on how you count, either way it has more influence than Yisrael-Hayom. They do neglect their English site, but this particular content matches their Hebrew publication. It can't be seriously compared to USA Today (which is one of those magazine you mainly get for free, and barely has any dedicated readership).

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#273

Post by ucha »

HugoDaniel wrote: post #255

"Europe is facing a vaccine disaster. Whereas countries like Israel, Britain and the United States. are quickly moving ahead with vaccinations, the EU is reeling from a string of setbacks. " this is a lie, per capita EU is not that bad considering that it is a coordinated effort (as opposed to a singular effort by a singular country). Overall this is Der Spiegel making an opinion article disguised as a news article.…

The EU is 3x worse than the US, 4-5x worse than the UK and about 20x worse than Israel. It's one of the few - maybe the only - developed "countries" that has both a record number of cases and low vaccination rates. How is that not bad?

A lot of pro-EU people refuse to blame to commission because they see it, justly, as a vindication of the Brits who warned of the EU bureaucracy when they left. But IMO, being pro-EU starts by naming the problems in the commission so that they can be fixed.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#274

Post by true_religion »

HugoDaniel wrote: post #269
thepasswordis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US effort is also not a singular effort. Each state is basically running their own system.

Comparing USA states to countries is a very common practice of uneducated Americans.

In the case of health care, it’s apt because the federal government cannot force states to take actions.

They can only issue guidelines.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#275

Post by HugoDaniel »

neilsense wrote: post #264
HugoDaniel wrote: post #255

"Europe is facing a vaccine disaster. Whereas countries like Israel, Britain and the United States. are quickly moving ahead with vaccinations, the EU is reeling from a string of setbacks. " this is a lie, per capita EU is not that bad considering that it is a coordinated effort (as opposed to a singular effort by a singular country). Overall this is Der Spiegel making an opinion article disguised as a news article.…

"not that bad" -> more people dying

I don't understand this comment. Could you please expand it in a more constructive way?

Vaccination is not the only way available to stop the spreading of the virus:

  - Keep social distancing
  - Avoid friends and familiar reunions
  - Wash your hands frequently
  - Wear a mask
  - Be careful
The top 5 places with most coronavirus deaths are:

1. USA 2. Brazil 3. Mexico 4. India 5. UK

None of these are in the EU.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#276

Post by Ulrich2 »

mattmanser wrote: post #239
jackTheMan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know how many doses UK is getting over the same period? Does UK also missing 60% of their contract or they are prioritized?

The UK actually ordered that vaccine way before the EU, the UK essentially paid for manufacturing to start. EU didn't, and only ordered it after it was clear it would work. 3 months later than the UK. So astrazeneca started manufacturing doses in the UK 3 months ago, but the manufacturing teething problems in the EU factory are 3 months behind. Essentially the EU, at best, are trying to jump the queue, which is very…

Well... maybe not. What the EU suspects is that vaccine that was produced in the EU with EU money was shipped to the UK in December. I have read that even until last week shipments went from the EU to the UK.

If so, AZ and/or the UK government are actively cheating the EU. Is it true? I guess time will tell.

Good source for latest vaccine news: https://twitter.com/QuentinAries

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#277

Post by HugoDaniel »

ucha wrote: post #273
HugoDaniel wrote: post #255

"Europe is facing a vaccine disaster. Whereas countries like Israel, Britain and the United States. are quickly moving ahead with vaccinations, the EU is reeling from a string of setbacks. " this is a lie, per capita EU is not that bad considering that it is a coordinated effort (as opposed to a singular effort by a singular country). Overall this is Der Spiegel making an opinion article disguised as a news article.…

The EU is 3x worse than the US, 4-5x worse than the UK and about 20x worse than Israel. It's one of the few - maybe the only - developed "countries" that has both a record number of cases and low vaccination rates. How is that not bad? A lot of pro-EU people refuse to blame to commission because they see it, justly, as a vindication of the Brits who warned of the EU bureaucracy when they left. But IMO, being pro-EU s…

Please provide data. How did you make the comparison? Does it consider that these countries moved up the priority stack through shady tactics and started vaccination earlier than the EU?

Are you analysing the numbers per capita? total? average in 7 days?

Please be constructive.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#278

Post by danielfoster »

HugoDaniel wrote: post #277
ucha wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is 3x worse than the US, 4-5x worse than the UK and about 20x worse than Israel. It's one of the few - maybe the only - developed "countries" that has both a record number of cases and low vaccination rates. How is that not bad? A lot of pro-EU people refuse to blame to commission because they see it, justly, as a vindication of the Brits who warned of the EU bureaucracy when they left. But IMO, being pro-EU s…

Please provide data. How did you make the comparison? Does it consider that these countries moved up the priority stack through shady tactics and started vaccination earlier than the EU? Are you analysing the numbers per capita? total? average in 7 days? Please be constructive.

The data is easily available by searching Google.

The EU has been slow to order doses from viable partners and always seems to be the last to approve new vaccines. Some EU countries are only now giving their first vaccines.

What shady tactics did other countries use? To be fair it’s not reasonable to demand someone show data and then allude to “shady tactics” without providing evidence, though I don’t doubt that shady tactics were probably used all around.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#279

Post by HugoDaniel »

danielfoster wrote: post #278
HugoDaniel wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide data. How did you make the comparison? Does it consider that these countries moved up the priority stack through shady tactics and started vaccination earlier than the EU? Are you analysing the numbers per capita? total? average in 7 days? Please be constructive.

The data is easily available by searching Google. The EU has been slow to order doses from viable partners and always seems to be the last to approve new vaccines. Some EU countries are only now giving their first vaccines. What shady tactics did other countries use? To be fair it’s not reasonable to demand someone show data and then allude to “shady tactics” without providing evidence, though I don’t doubt that shad…

Does not answer the question or expand on what time interval the data is collected.

However, since you played the Google card, please take it back:

"What shady tactics did other countries use?"

Also easily available by searching Google.

Re: Europe's Vaccine Disaster

#280

Post by makomk »

matzab wrote: post #198
flembat wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the UK and while in the EU I thought we were part of the world's reasonable ethical block, but now from outside it is apparent how badly the EU bullies and intimidates other countries.

A significant part of the vaccines the UK has administered were produced in EU factories. Now that the EU tries to do the same as countries like the UK and the US do - not exporting - they are bullies? Right.

The two different vaccines the UK has administered had different contractual and manufacturing arrangements - the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine has separate manufacturing facilities for the UK and the EU, with each being contractually tied to the supply of vaccines for that area, whereas the Pfizer/BioNTech one both contracted for supply for the same manufacturing facility. As I understand it, the UK wanted at least one locally manufactured vaccine as a precaution in case Trump went and banned exports (and I suspect the EU also wanted theirs manufactured locally for the usual reasons).
Post reply on HN