What would make this more clear cut is a summary of what situation the university finds itself in. What's happened with the finances, why these departments, which admin staff are going?
University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
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Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#12I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics.
I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees.
Reading that administrators actually outnumber teaching staff at some American universities today, I cannot help but ask what went wrong. This kind of bureaucratic bloat would make late Soviet Union blush and professor Parkinson rewrite his books.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/28/teachers-ou...
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#13The part about synergy between faculties is accurate. Having strong pure math academics helps out the various applied math departments in indirect ways that I've seen.
This is a shame. Pure math is a discipline with the most out of whack discrepancy between public positive externality and private benefit, even more than in physics. Pure math discoveries often have unexpected downstream benefits decades later as they percolate slowly into applied domains in unexpected ways, and its discoverers get little credit and no financial reward. Terence Tao should be getting paid in the millions for his work.
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#14I do not know the details of this case, but universities are opening new departments, centers and programs all the time. There needs to be some mechanism for reallocation rather than just growth.
Some breadth is always needed, but strength is even more critical for research. Having two universities, one with a center of excellency, say in physics one in ancient history is better than two mediocre research programs in each.
I think this has nothing to do with teaching mathematics -- classes will still be taught, this is about their research program. My 2c.
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#15I recently read Dijkstra's "On the fact that the Atlantic Ocean has two sides". [1] In vast parts, it's not much more than mildly disguised US-bashing (Dijkstra was always a grumpy old man) but that's not what caught my eye. What did was the fact that he describes the US research landscape as a system that orients itself around short-term projects and industry desires. Dijkstra clearly expresses his contempt for this approach over what he claims to be the European way: long-term thinking and research done for research's sake.
That paper was written in 1982
Fast forward ~40 years, and the presumed US model is exactly the way research funding works all across Europe today. Jumping from one project to the next, always hoping that one of your next proposals will receive funding, or you're out of a job. Your project proposal has a weak "exploitation" section? Well, goodbye proposal then! Universities are thought of as nothing more than R&D departments and providers of new young hires for the economic sector.
It's only consequential then to axe such "useless" disciplines as pure mathematics.
This is a scandal.
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Edit: these news from last September fit perfectly into the picture [2]:
The European Union’s next research programme is likely to have a greater emphasis on funding for applied research, experts have warned, as universities were told to put pressure on politicians to increase the budget. [...]
In July, EU leaders agreed to spend €80.9 billion (£72.9 billion) on Horizon Europe, €13.5 billion less than was hoped for in May.
However, regarding the budget cut, keep in mind the costs incurred by the COVID19 pandemic.
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[1] https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/E...
[2] https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/horizon-europe-wil...
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#16I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…
> regular events on the currently hot social justice topics.
This is a cheap shot and totally inaccurate. Do you really think UK universities are closing their maths departments so that they can spend more on the humanities?
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#17I wonder if the end game of higher education looks like purely administrative bodies with enormous tuition that just provide the students with leisure, varsity sports and regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. I studied pure math in the Czech Rep. between 1996 and 2003. The administrative staff was about 10 per cent of the entire body of employees. Reading that administrators actually outnumber te…
> regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. This is a cheap shot and totally inaccurate. Do you really think UK universities are closing their maths departments so that they can spend more on the humanities?
No, but this is the kind of stuff that can keep students busy and not asking whether they get their money's worth. A very efficient distraction.
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#18People should note that:
* this is a UK university, tuition is limited to about 30k GBP for a (UK standard) 3 year degree. That's 30k total, not per year. Accommodation is extra.
* Leicester isn't a particularly good university. It's ranked 77th out of 121. 50th out of 68 for maths [0].
* The department has been put on notice a few times that it needs more to up its income (get more students, get more research grants, get more other funding) or cut it's expenses. It hasn't done so.
* There are a whole bunch of wider issues for university funding at the moment. A rent strike is costing them money. Inability to take on foreign students (who they can charge more) is costing them money. A drop in overall intake as more students realise it likely isn't worth the money to get a degree etc. Fewer students on campus means less sales from university bars, restaurants etc. Mix that with high fixed costs and someone has to be let go.
* They're closing the pure maths departments but seem to be keeping the others (Including actuarial science) which is likely what students actually want. Ultimately UK degrees are mostly about getting a job these days, not the beauty of numbers. That's sad but that's the predictable consequence of 20 years of government policy in the area.
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2020/se...
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#19I recently read Dijkstra's "On the fact that the Atlantic Ocean has two sides". [1] In vast parts, it's not much more than mildly disguised US-bashing (Dijkstra was always a grumpy old man) but that's not what caught my eye. What did was the fact that he describes the US research landscape as a system that orients itself around short-term projects and industry desires. Dijkstra clearly expresses his contempt for this…
It looks like our civilization has passed its peak and now bouncing back to medieval ages.
Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
> regular events on the currently hot social justice topics. This is a cheap shot and totally inaccurate. Do you really think UK universities are closing their maths departments so that they can spend more on the humanities?
No, but this is the kind of stuff that can keep students busy and not asking whether they get their money's worth. A very efficient distraction.
Students wanting to get their money’s worth is exactly the root cause of this. Trust me, British Universities are bending over backwards to give students what they want. If you’ve been anywhere near a British University you’d know how ridiculous it is to suggest that the staff are somehow secretly organizing BLM protests (??) as part of a plan to stop students noticing how much money they’re spending (??)