WW2 and Holocaust were only possible because of all the egoistic diplomatic games all the powers played at the time.
1938 vs. 1940 (2018)
31–40 of 75 posts
Re: 1938 vs. 1940 (2018)
#32This takes a too limited a view of the situation. These decisions were likely made on far more more factors than one of purely material. Geopolitically Germany had the the advantage of singular national focus, it had no allies to coordinate with either strategically or tactically (at this stage). The UK and France were two very separate and independent states, who were not necessarily strongly aligned, there would ha…
I’d argue this was an advantage to Britain, not a disadvantage. Many of Britain’s ‘allies’ did as they were told and while theoretically had control of their troops destiny, actually did not.
Having supplies and manpower that could be built up and trained with little or zero threat of attack was very helpful.
Re: 1938 vs. 1940 (2018)
#33I recommend reading George Orwell's collected letters and essays from this period of time, to get a feel for what it was like living through it without the benefit of hindsight. (this is up to 1940) https://www.amazon.com/Collected-Essays-Journalism-Letters-G... There are other volumes, such as this covering 1940-43: https://www.amazon.com/Collected-Essays-Journalism-Letters-G...
Re: 1938 vs. 1940 (2018)
#34“The end of the beginning” was certainly not El Alamein but some event on the Eastern Front (I personally vote for the winter campaign of 1941-42).
“ On 10 November, knowing that El Alamein was a victory, he delivered one of his most memorable war speeches to the Lord Mayor's Luncheon at the Mansion House in London, in response to the Allied victory at El Alamein: "This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.” From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#%22We_shal...
Speech here:
Re: 1938 vs. 1940 (2018)
#35That is why Hitler even made the hazardous trip to Finland. There was no other sane person anywhere near him to ask advice. It was decided there and then that Finland will stop advancing and aim to some kind of deal with the Russians. After the defeat Germany will have some kind future, but Russians will exterminate Finnish people totally like the have done to all other Finnic nations.
Re: 1938 vs. 1940 (2018)
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not that secretly. The major US players, press, finance, industry were all open NAZI supporters. They financed Hitler and the industry to start the war against communism. Eg they gave them free oil patents, took over IG Farben, the chemical industry to produce the needed oil for the tanks to invade Russia. They gave them huge credit lines to overcome the desastrous WW1 reparation payments. They financed the military…
Japan and Germany were barely allies; Japan signed a non-aggression pact with the USSR and the Germans were happy about it because they didn't want any competition for the spoils they thought they would have. This is one of the pivotal things that led to German defeat because it freed Siberian troops to reinforce Moscow and reverse the German advance in winter 41. Hitler compounded the situation by declaring war on t…
Except that's not how that went down at all. The Lend-Lease[0] policy was in place long before Pearl Harbor or the German declaration. What's more, Roosevelt strongly supported the Allies even before that.
Re: 1938 vs. 1940 (2018)
#37[flagged]
After Germany had taken Austria, Sudetenland and Poland, isn't it. With a username like that, you should be careful to comment on WW2.
Re: 1938 vs. 1940 (2018)
#38First break: in 1938 when Hitler was essentially gifted the Sudetenland by the Munich accords and by the inaction in an absurdly limp response from the Czech government. This particular region of Czechoslovakia was deeply protected by heavy military defenses and these in turn were backed up by a strong army run by a country that was (though it may seem a bit strange today) at the time one of the more robust and sophisticated industrial powers in Europe. Had the Czechoslovak government simply said "No, if you want it, you'll have to fight for it", Hitler's army would have likely suffered catastrophic losses invading the Sudeten region in 1938 and its entire later drive to conquest would have been ruined before it even really began. Instead, Beneš and Prime Minister Milan Hodža caved to pressure from Chamberlin and from Hitler as well, and lost their single best chunk of protective territory (not to mention the sheer morale loss that this entailed. From then, it was a simple thing to swallow the rest of Czechoslovakia in early 1939, further reinforcing the German war drive and industrial power. Had Hitler attempted to actually fight for the Sudetenland in 1938, his own generals knew that the Wehrmacht was still completely unfit for such an undertaking and they believed this to the point of being on the verge of a military coup attempt had it come to war. This was all (for Hitler) very luckily nullified by the completely counterproductive Munich agreement. Hitler came out of that looking like a political genius when in reality he was a frustrated fool who had desperately wanted war over the Sudeten region instead of diplomatic victory, despite it being a terribly bad idea.
Next, the lucky break of 1939: Yes, the German army was superbly equipped and armed by September of that year, but it was materially and numerically inferior to that of the French forces. Thus, when Hitler sent the vast majority of his forces into Poland in September, the only thing protecting Germany in the west was a thin screen of scant divisions along the border with France. Had France actually had the drive and political will to take its declaration of war in defense of Poland seriously and energetically, it could have mobilized fully and sent the full force of 40 divisions that the country's already prepared, ready, fully deployable "Saar Offensive" plan called for into the heart of western Germany. Doing this while Hitler was busy with Poland, in mid September would have been a catastrophe for the Germans, and would have completely ruined later plans to invade France. Instead, the French only advanced 30 divisions TO the Saar border, did essentially nothing more, and shortly afterwards, once the Polish campaign was over, Germany quickly reinforced this region with its own offensive action in October, 1939, causing the French to pull back completely. What an enormously wasted opportunity for boosting morale and war footing ahead of the game and crushing obvious future German aggression.
Re: 1938 vs. 1940 (2018)
#39Germany got extraordinarily lucky at many points between 1938 and 1941 (just prior to Barbarossa), but two of its most decisive lucky breaks happened in 1939 and 1938. First break: in 1938 when Hitler was essentially gifted the Sudetenland by the Munich accords and by the inaction in an absurdly limp response from the Czech government. This particular region of Czechoslovakia was deeply protected by heavy military de…
Re: 1938 vs. 1940 (2018)
#40If you listen Hitler-Mannerheim birthday party recording in 1942, you understand that Hitler had realized already he had fucked up totally. Hitler complains bitterly: "Russians had moved Panzer factories to the Urals and making 100 new ones every day, what can I do?". That is why Hitler even made the hazardous trip to Finland. There was no other sane person anywhere near him to ask advice. It was decided there and th…