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Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

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Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#41

Post by briansmith »

byrneseyeview wrote: post #34
briansmith wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Although if you're worried that the US is a police state, you might not like it there." That is putting it mildly. It is illegal to possess chewing gum there. Vandalism is punishable by torture.

'Punishable by torture' is ridiculous. Caning is rarely used, and I would probably prefer it to a prison sentence. But again, this is a matter of preference. If you love being an antisocial asshole, Singapore will be hell for you until they kick you out (if they let you in). If you're a responsible adult, you won't notice the laws because they won't apply to you -- the penalty for vandalism or heroin use or spitting…

Exactly. If you share that attitude then you will be able to tolerate Singaporean society. Still, it isn't an improvement over American society.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#42

Post by mechanical_fish »

- uuilly is right: Stop reading the news. It's just making you depressed.

- The USA has got its problems, but other countries also have their problems. Half the problems that plague the USA also plague the world. (Example: Our housing bubble is also, in part, a global housing bubble -- easy credit can cross national boundaries, and it has!) And many of the problems that are new to the USA are old news in the rest of the world. (Ask a Londoner about police-state surveillance. Ask (e.g.) a Brazilian from the slums of Rio about police violence. Ask a Chinese person about what it's like to live without a First Amendment... or ask an old Chinese person, or (god help us) a Cambodian, what "politics gone mad" really looks like.)

- You need to travel, no question. Just take some long trips. If you put all your stuff in storage you can spend your rent money in foreign countries for months at a time.

- The best place for you to start a company is almost certainly the USA. You know the language. You know the culture. You've got a lot of contacts. You have no legal issues.

- You're a web worker. Think about it: Just because your company is in the USA doesn't mean your office needs to be in the USA. You can have an office on a beach in Argentina for a month, then have an office in a cafe in Japan for a month, then have an office in a hostel in Australia for a month. Just learn the local words for "wifi" and remember: When a customs official asks if your trip is for pleasure you say yes.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#43

Post by gm »

I moved the f*ck out of the US and set up a business in Mexico. I will not say what or exactly where, but my quality of life has shot straight up. Everything's cheaper, the girls are great, no Bush politics, I don't hear stories of police murde^H^H^H^H^Hacting in self-defense against normal people, and i'm a de facto super hero here for helping the economy pick up.

Like someone else said: Look at what bothers you, then look for places that don't have that shit, rather than looking for the perfect place. Every place has its downside.

NZ seems like good place, so does France (if you want to have a 35 hour work week). There are lots of options.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#44

Post by menloparkbum »

alaskamiller wrote: post #23

Have you personally experience the ill effects of the US or is this just from reading Reddit all day? I had the same feeling and took time to travel within the US and disconnect from the Internet. As for finding another place, there are problems with any other places you pick. Can you pick up a high-tech job in Japan without knowing Japanese? Not likely. Japan is also a nifty place to visit but rarely a good place to…

The thing about working in tech in Japan is that whereas Japanese engineers are good at making games and consumer electronics, they are not very good at typical desktop or web software. In my experience, most "software engineers" in Japan were actually Chinese... who could also speak English. Thus, it isn't that hard to get hired, even if you don't know much Japanese. It is hard to find the job in the first place, though.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#45

Post by alaskamiller »

menloparkbum wrote: post #44
alaskamiller wrote: post #23

Have you personally experience the ill effects of the US or is this just from reading Reddit all day? I had the same feeling and took time to travel within the US and disconnect from the Internet. As for finding another place, there are problems with any other places you pick. Can you pick up a high-tech job in Japan without knowing Japanese? Not likely. Japan is also a nifty place to visit but rarely a good place to…

The thing about working in tech in Japan is that whereas Japanese engineers are good at making games and consumer electronics, they are not very good at typical desktop or web software. In my experience, most "software engineers" in Japan were actually Chinese... who could also speak English. Thus, it isn't that hard to get hired, even if you don't know much Japanese. It is hard to find the job in the first place, th…

There's two routes: traditional software development in big corporations where it's all Japanese university graduates or with smaller proto-startups with a bigger mix. They're not clustered in anywhere in particular. If you have contacts, give that a shot.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#46

Post by menloparkbum »

1) You can emigrate almost anywhere to start a company, if you have half a million dollars or more, in cash. If you don't have any money, it is hard(er) to emigrate anywhere in the "first world."

2) Nowhere in particular is facing a shortage of high-tech web workers.

3) It is easy to get a job in Japan if you know someone who can get you a job in Japan. The hard part is finding the job in the first place. If you don't already have a connection, your best bet is to already be in Japan, and then apply somewhere that is known for hiring non-japanese people... like an investment bank or JENS or Dell. English is not typically spoken in the workplace in Japan, but in my experience, one out of 30 people spoke decent english. I wouldn't say Japan is a great place to go if you are simply sick of the USA. It is fun for 3-6 months. It is very expensive and a "closed society," so after a while you will get very homesick.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#47

Post by ideas101 »

uuilly wrote: post #17

Stop reading reddit. Wait a month. See how you feel.

And if you're addicted to reddit and cant help it then following are your choices:

Americas: Canada (English speaking, diversified society, encouraging entrepreneurship etc.)

Asia: Singapore, India, Indonesia, Philippines (all countries are english speaking for business)

Europe: any eastern Europe that has good weather and encouraging environment for start-ups.

Far East: Australia/ NewZealand (they have immigration policy, and fantastic weather)

Middle East: Abu-dhabi and Dubai (most happening place, no tax, you just need to find good geeks or import it from India).

Good Luck.

P.S: Find out everything about Australia and Canada - they both have immigration policy and temporary work visa policy ...

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#48

Post by gexla »

You will always be a U.S. citizen and having to file taxes (whether you owe or not) so you will not be able to fully sever your thread to the U.S.

My suggestion is to become a freelance web worker. You can simply move from one country to another or you can sit down at one country with an easy to work with visa and do visa runs.

One country to look at is the Philippines. Relatively inexpensive to live there, huge English speaking population and best of all you can stay up to 16 months in the country on a tourist visa before you have to do a visa run. You simply leave the country, get a flight back and the process starts all over again.

Take a look at sites such as locationindependent.com

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#49

Post by ninguem1 »

bluelu wrote: post #35

If you are good and bring in capital, I think probably every country will give you a working permit. Just remember that as US citizen you will always to have to pay taxes in the US even if you work outside the US. (in addition to the taxes you pay in the country you are working in) :)

A lot of countries have tax treaties with the US. So you can deduct the taxes you pay in that country from your US tax. You don't get double taxed. Of course, if you go to a place with very little taxes, you don't get to enjoy that.

Re: Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where?

#50

Post by __ »

I'm not sure your strategy is sound. Nonetheless, if you're determined to work in another country (assuming you're not a citizen), you will quickly run into legal trouble: in most countries, you need to have some sort of work permit, which can be difficult or impossible to get.

If any of your ancestors are from Europe, you may be able to claim citizenship in their country of origin. This is the legal principle of jus sanguinis. The Wikipedia article on jus sanguinis has a list of countries that have that style of citizenship law (not all are European).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis

This is cool, because -- as I understand it -- if you're a citizen of a European Union member country, you can legally work anywhere else in the EU. For example, if you can claim Spanish citizenship through your grandfather, you can go work at a startup in London. (Starting your own company might be a different matter, though.)

If you're descended from Jews, you may be able to claim Israeli citizenship. I don't know much about this, but Israel does have a startup scene.

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