Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#131

Post by will_pseudonym » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 5:28 AM UTC

krastanov wrote: post #109

lawl wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which one? The one also made by Google, the one paid for by Google, ones of those based on the one made by Google, or the one made by the other smartphone OS owner with a walled garden?

I will bite: Firefox, the one that cares about privacy and open standards, even if it has a lot of income coming from a search bar deal with Google.

...and doesn't care about deplatforming.

"We need more than deplatforming"

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/01/08/we-need-more-than-d...

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#132

Post by tylerl » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 5:29 AM UTC

Hold on. Nobody has explained why TF I'm supposed to care. Is Element important or something? Does this affect real people?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#133

Post by mastazi » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 5:29 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #119

burnte wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me ask you a question, how were they negatively impacting your mental wellbeing? I ask this genuinely, because I have a tendency to feel these tools only negatively impact people who use them in stress-creating ways. That, however, feels like victim blaming. There's a difference between a using a circular saw dangerously and a circular saw that is MADE with electrical failures that shock you. Let me give the e…

> So let me ask you a question, how were they negatively impacting your mental wellbeing? I ask this genuinely, because I have a tendency to feel these tools only negatively impact people who use them in stress-creating ways. They use highly optimized and self-optimizing techniques and psychological tricks (including A/B testing, consulting experts in cognition, using dark patterns, and everything) to get you hooked…

Yes I agree, the main point that led me to quit is that all of those services are created to "maximise screen time", in other words designed to be addictive.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#134

Post by afavour » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 5:31 AM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #24

Opt out. No Google. No Facebook. No Twitter. No Amazon. You don't need them, you might even enjoy life more without them. You can't change how they operate. But you can change how you operate.

> You can't change how they operate.

You can, by pressuring politicians to create laws and regulations. It’s just something the US hasn’t tried all that much lately.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#135

Post by passerby1 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 5:31 AM UTC

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote: post #65

illustriousbear wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people and authorities? I stopped using these services and told people to contact me via sms or signal. No problems so far. The people who won't make that extra step aren't worth my time because clearly I'm not worth their time.

> What people and authorities? - Make bank account. - Bank forces you to use their app for obtaining TANs. - App refuses to run because "your phone is rooted", i.e. because you removed Google's crap. - No bank account for you, sorry bro. I have personally been through this shit. Sure, some banks offer using a physical TAN generator - but not all!

Not sure what TANs are, but why not using a separate (SIMless) old/cheap Android device only for that?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#136

Post by gremlinsinc » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 5:33 AM UTC

joshbuddy wrote: post #31

I wonder if there is a way we place these App Store decisions into the hands of a third party. Either that or break Android away from Google and forbid them from colluding.

Handset makers could start some sort of ... Open Handset alliance, oh wait..that's how we got Android.

Nope. Better alternative would probably be some sort of blockchain thing with reviews baked in and maybe authority nodes (devs with experience) could validate/clear apps from having viruses/etc... or just have a reporting mechanism so apps get pulled when suspicious.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#137

Post by gremlinsinc » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 5:33 AM UTC

brink wrote: post #122

Remind me again what Fascism is and tell me how this isn't fascist.

Not fascist. So far they're not targeting a specific race, nor are they killing people by this decision.

Monopolistic, capitalistic, cronyism -- yeah lots of that.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#138

Post by young_unixer » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 5:34 AM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #29

'Private company, they do what they want' gang arriving in 3, 2, 1..

'Private company, they do what they want'

That's correct, but we can still boycott companies that do this.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#139

Post by chc4 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 5:34 AM UTC

tylerl wrote: post #132

Hold on. Nobody has explained why TF I'm supposed to care. Is Element important or something? Does this affect real people?

A friend group and I all jumped ship to Matrix and Element literally like two weeks ago because Discord randomly banned the server admin for "spam and abuse", which is shorthand for "triggered an opaque heuristic, probably from using Ripcord".

So yeah, it's kinda a big deal to me that Google is saying that if Discord stops letting you play with their ball, you're not allowed to play with your own ball either.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#140

Post by mastazi » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 5:34 AM UTC

bordercases wrote: post #115

burnte wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me ask you a question, how were they negatively impacting your mental wellbeing? I ask this genuinely, because I have a tendency to feel these tools only negatively impact people who use them in stress-creating ways. That, however, feels like victim blaming. There's a difference between a using a circular saw dangerously and a circular saw that is MADE with electrical failures that shock you. Let me give the e…

Google reads your e-mails to develop its ads. Psychological profiles are collated from every click you take on each of these platforms and pulled into ad brokerships. The people that are hired to do this profiling often have crossovers into government sectors, as this is just another form of surveillance. I am personally shocked (not necessarily appalled) at anyone feeling OK with this level of scrutiny being applied…

Another example regarding Google and more precisely Youtube. When my daughter was younger we created an account on a smart TV and watched a few videos for kids on a newly created Youtube account... Over time I realised that they tweak recommendations in such a way that kids are presented with highly addictive (and sometimes borderline disturbing) content. With kids content it is more obvious, but the same is true for adult users, even though the "addictiveness" aspect tends to be more nuanced. A couple of years ago there was a TechCrunch article that talked about this topic: https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/12/i-watched-1000-hours-of-yo...