Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t • Hacker News Board

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#91

Post by bennyp101 » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

azhenley wrote: post #26

paxys wrote: post #14

I used to program with 6 thick reference books around me. Has memorizing SDKs, APIs, libraries ever been a thing? Or is this just the daily "everything is bad nowadays" post?

Every interview I’ve done required me to have everything memorized, so it seems this is very much a thing.

I had an online interview last year, and it was basically me coding up as they supplied the criteria (in PHP). For the life of me, I couldn't remember how to use array_column, but I knew that was what I needed to use.

They basically said "errr, you could just look it up?" - like, it was obvious that the interview was more about what you knew, and how to do things, rather than can you remember every little thing from ever about your job that you don't use day in day out.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#92

Post by tutfbhuf » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #53

tutfbhuf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stack overflow didnt package so easily You just need some copy of something like: the way back machine, google cache or archive.is and then do asynchronous mirroring and you are not so far behind. Zoom meetings might be a problem though.

> Zoom meetings might be a problem though. If it prompted the meeting organiser to put their one point into an email, thereby saving 6 people a 45 minute meeting, would it be a problem or a feature?

Would be an interesting case study to find out if remote developers from Mars are actually more productive due to lack of synchronous communication.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#93

Post by martijnvds » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

yosamino wrote: post #72

phkahler wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say Elon starts that colony on Mars and you think "Ima move there and write code for a living." You might have the internet, but its 15 minutes each direction. Nothing interactive works, and while they brought copies of Wikipedia, stack overflow didnt package so easily. Or more simply, can you write a web app without internet access?

> Or more simply, can you write a web app without internet access? I understand what you are trying to say - but what would be the point of that ? If we were to prepare an essential list of documents that are required to write web applications without access to the net, we would probably be able to cobble it together and make it available offline. I mean MDN, CanIuse and CssTricks.com would already get you like 90% t…

Add the RFC library for fallback/server side of things.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#94

Post by twox2 » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #16

sosodev wrote: post #5

Does it actually matter if I can? Is using reference material a bad thing? Edit: I know the article touches on that idea briefly but my argument would be "of course it doesn't matter". Sure, I could develop slightly faster with a more encyclopedic memory but I really doubt it would make an observable difference in the long-term. Most of my time isn't spent referencing libraries or syntax but instead I spend most of m…

Let's say Elon starts that colony on Mars and you think "Ima move there and write code for a living." You might have the internet, but its 15 minutes each direction. Nothing interactive works, and while they brought copies of Wikipedia, stack overflow didnt package so easily. Or more simply, can you write a web app without internet access?

What use is a web app without internet access?

Also, as if no internet access = no refernce.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#95

Post by kube-system » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #14

I used to program with 6 thick reference books around me. Has memorizing SDKs, APIs, libraries ever been a thing? Or is this just the daily "everything is bad nowadays" post?

Think about the days before the internet. Was there any technical profession where you'd find offices without lots of books?

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#96

Post by munk-a » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

_the_inflator wrote: post #46

908B64B197 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the reason I do algorithmic whiteboard instead of full blown "real world" coding exercises. I don't care that someone memorized whatever command line syntax to create a new project in whatever framework. That's just rote. Even what we write on the whiteboard I don't expect it to compile. Is it ToString or toString? Can't recall either. What I care about is that someone can ask the relevant questions, come up w…

And afterwards? What is the hired guy then doing? Fixing the size of a button? ;)

That really depends on how much management there is for hand holding. I expect a good developer to get a ticket to fix the size of a button and be able to follow up with stakeholders about the size of the button next to it.

It'd be really weird if we sunk so much effort into ticket writing that everything really was just reduced to a task - at that point the ticket author should just go ahead and fix the thing.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#97

Post by jascii » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

Yes I can.

I regularly disconnect for a hacking session, reduces distractions and I find it often helps me come up with simpler solutions then building something up out of what's already there.

Its also nice to spend some time on my boat and still get some work done :)

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#98

Post by cvhashim » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

ksec wrote: post #50

I would not be surprised if even Professional Web Developers cant do it. Especially if you include deployment. This isn't the old days of FTP, Perl or PHP anymore. There are too much information I cant memorise every single bit of it. And I dont think you should either. Especially in the age of Google. My memory capacity has its limit, and there are things I just decide it is not important enough to memorise when I c…

Some developers already livestream on YouTube as they program up web apps or other software. George Hotz for example used to livestream on YouTube/twitch. You can find many others.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#99

Post by colecut » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #83

colecut wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remain living happily in the old days of PHP, somehow making functioning applications and being paid well. Life is easy and good.

Do you live in Europe?

San Diego, California

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#100

Post by henning » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

It matters if you're applying for a job and the people interviewing or the hiring manager think you should.

People like Mike Acton and Jonathan Blow give incredibly condescending speeches about "practice" like you should be able to just make a Win32 API app that calls DirectX (or some other comically absurdly bad API) from memory. Blow in particular loves harping on this and loves saying that web developers are incompetent and wasting their time creating awful products.

How much time do you spend making new apps on long-lived projects? At many companies, the answer is zero. These same companies may think you suck shit at programming if you can't remember command line options you never have to use in day-to-day work.