Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

web.eecs.utk.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 332 posts

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#72

Post by yosamino »

phkahler wrote: post #16
sosodev wrote: post #5

Does it actually matter if I can? Is using reference material a bad thing? Edit: I know the article touches on that idea briefly but my argument would be "of course it doesn't matter". Sure, I could develop slightly faster with a more encyclopedic memory but I really doubt it would make an observable difference in the long-term. Most of my time isn't spent referencing libraries or syntax but instead I spend most of m…

Let's say Elon starts that colony on Mars and you think "Ima move there and write code for a living." You might have the internet, but its 15 minutes each direction. Nothing interactive works, and while they brought copies of Wikipedia, stack overflow didnt package so easily. Or more simply, can you write a web app without internet access?

> Or more simply, can you write a web app without internet access?

I understand what you are trying to say - but what would be the point of that ?

If we were to prepare an essential list of documents that are required to write web applications without access to the net, we would probably be able to cobble it together and make it available offline.

I mean MDN, CanIuse and CssTricks.com would already get you like 90% there.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#73

Post by colecut »

ksec wrote: post #50

I would not be surprised if even Professional Web Developers cant do it. Especially if you include deployment. This isn't the old days of FTP, Perl or PHP anymore. There are too much information I cant memorise every single bit of it. And I dont think you should either. Especially in the age of Google. My memory capacity has its limit, and there are things I just decide it is not important enough to memorise when I c…

I remain living happily in the old days of PHP, somehow making functioning applications and being paid well. Life is easy and good.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#75

Post by burlesona »

trey-jones wrote: post #58

Well there is this quote, often attributed to Einstein himself: “Never memorize something that you can look up.” I don't know whether he really said or thought anything like that, and I also don't actually agree with the literal meaning. There are some things that it pays to memorize, in my opinion. As I keep reminding my daughters: times tables (or math facts as they seem to be known nowadays) are important forever.…

There is some truth to that quote, namely that becoming effective at looking things up is a big productivity booster.

But there is no productivity booster as large as knowing exactly how to do something without needing to look it up. This is almost by definition the level of mastery that comes from significant practice / experience.

I've noticed that some of the very smart people I've worked with for years did not ever really achieve mastery of their language or tools, and I think that's at least partially because they didn't care to take the time to try and figure things out without looking them up, and thus the inner workings of things remained inscrutable to them.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#76

Post by _vufv »

Easy...

  mkdir example-1
  cd example-1
  yarn init -y
  yarn add next react react-dom
  mkdir pages
  cat  pages/index.js
  const Page = () => "Hello world!";
  export default Page;
  EOF
  yarn dev
Didn't test. There could be typos and you need to care about the indentation of the HEREDOC.

I can't do it with an arbitrary set of tools either, but that's why good tools matter and that's why you should use Next.js.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#77

Post by omarhaneef »

I remember one of my physics teachers told me that what it used to mean to be a good mathematician was you could do mathematics quickly in your head.

But then cheap and ubiquitous calculators changed all that, and what it meant to be a good mathematician was solving complex chains of problems.

But then cheap computers changed that, and what it means to be a good mathematician now was just setting up the right equation.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#78

Post by abeppu »

Olreich wrote: post #62
abeppu wrote: post #54

This specific case, and the norm of interviewing without access to references is not that interesting. But it is kinda like a specialized version of a fun party question, "With what you know now, if you were sent back in time, how far could you go and usefully employ your knowledge of the future?" (E.g. I know chemical fertilizer is a big deal, but I definitely do not know how to make it. I studied heat engines in a…

The going back in time question is actually really good. What are the fundamental concepts you need to kickstart stuff? Those fundamental insights are still going to be relevant today, which is why they sparked revolutions and major changes to the landscape.

A close parallel, which I refuse to play until the world becomes a less scary place is about rebuilding after an apocalypse.

One "out" that can make the exercise more inclusive depending on the group is germ theory. Any modern person could save a bunch of lives in almost any period if they can convince people to wash their hands, boil suspect water, separate wells and sewage by a wide margin, etc. And yes, definitely still relevant today.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#79

Post by burlesona »

dusted wrote: post #9

I can, but it will be basic! I might have to use a JSON file for the backend because I probably can't remember any database libs well enough to use without documentation. However, lots of programming is much closer to plumming than to.. programming.. any time you're using a lib or api, you're just looking up what kind of fittings that comes with and what length of pipe to attach to it.. So don't worry about not being…

Yeah I would say this is exactly right.

You should be able to learn at least one language deeply enough that, given sufficient time, you could do just about anything without libraries or external dependencies, and therefore without needing additional documentation. Aspiring to and eventually developing that level of language mastery is, IMO, one of the core signs of maturity for a Software Engineer.

However, that would be wildly impractical in our day to day work, which is more about connecting pieces together in the right way, and hence is a lot about reading the manual for those pieces, understanding what it is they do and how they should be assembled together, and then actually assembling them together and testing that it all worked as expected. "Googling things" is an essential step in that process, but you could substitute Google for "read the manual" in an earlier era and it would be the same thing.

Perhaps what is sad is how many things these days ship without good manuals, because Google makes it easy enough for people to stitch together scanty release notes, comments in the source code, blog posts, Stack Overflow questions, etc. that you can actually get away with not having a manual.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#80

Post by jjk166 »

Can you build a house with one arm tied behind your back? I'm sure someone theoretically could, but not why anyone would. Is relying on having two hands a detriment to being a handyman? Does such a person lack critical expertise?

Professionals use the tools at their disposal. Instant access to the sum of all human knowledge is an incredibly powerful tool, and you don't get any bonus points for leaving it in your toolbox.

Post reply on HN