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Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

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Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#31

Post by slg »

warkdarrior wrote: post #12
sosodev wrote: post #5

Does it actually matter if I can? Is using reference material a bad thing? Edit: I know the article touches on that idea briefly but my argument would be "of course it doesn't matter". Sure, I could develop slightly faster with a more encyclopedic memory but I really doubt it would make an observable difference in the long-term. Most of my time isn't spent referencing libraries or syntax but instead I spend most of m…

It matters because SWE interviews rely on coding without googling. Maybe we need to change how interviews are done to test people on their Googling skills. For a given coding task, what do they search for? Do they Google for the right terms? Do they converge quickly on the right website to copy from?

>It matters because SWE interviews rely on coding without googling.

Some (probably most) SWE interviews rely on coding without Googling. However I have been through plenty of interviews in which that wasn't the case. Coincidentally I also find this type of honesty in the interview process is a good indicator of how much I would enjoy working at the company.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#32

Post by 908B64B197 »

sosodev wrote: post #5

Does it actually matter if I can? Is using reference material a bad thing? Edit: I know the article touches on that idea briefly but my argument would be "of course it doesn't matter". Sure, I could develop slightly faster with a more encyclopedic memory but I really doubt it would make an observable difference in the long-term. Most of my time isn't spent referencing libraries or syntax but instead I spend most of m…

That's the reason I do algorithmic whiteboard instead of full blown "real world" coding exercises.

I don't care that someone memorized whatever command line syntax to create a new project in whatever framework. That's just rote. Even what we write on the whiteboard I don't expect it to compile. Is it ToString or toString? Can't recall either.

What I care about is that someone can ask the relevant questions, come up with a design and explain what and why they are doing something.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#35

Post by kortilla »

warkdarrior wrote: post #12
sosodev wrote: post #5

Does it actually matter if I can? Is using reference material a bad thing? Edit: I know the article touches on that idea briefly but my argument would be "of course it doesn't matter". Sure, I could develop slightly faster with a more encyclopedic memory but I really doubt it would make an observable difference in the long-term. Most of my time isn't spent referencing libraries or syntax but instead I spend most of m…

It matters because SWE interviews rely on coding without googling. Maybe we need to change how interviews are done to test people on their Googling skills. For a given coding task, what do they search for? Do they Google for the right terms? Do they converge quickly on the right website to copy from?

SWE interviews (at FAANGs at least) don’t care about library specifics though. As long as you know the syntax and how to write algos/data structures, you can make it through.

There is a strong argument that being good at that isn’t required for most SWEs (including at FAANG), but it is something that having library/framework references doesn’t really help with.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#36

Post by egfx »

Yes I can and I did after the enyojs framework went completely bye-bye and replaced with an entirely different framework called enact based not on enyo but on react! It reminded me of the time Qualcomm decided to one day purge all brew documents from their website. Google is fickle. The truth is in the source code of whatever you’re working with.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#37

Post by akiselev »

phkahler wrote: post #16
sosodev wrote: post #5

Does it actually matter if I can? Is using reference material a bad thing? Edit: I know the article touches on that idea briefly but my argument would be "of course it doesn't matter". Sure, I could develop slightly faster with a more encyclopedic memory but I really doubt it would make an observable difference in the long-term. Most of my time isn't spent referencing libraries or syntax but instead I spend most of m…

Let's say Elon starts that colony on Mars and you think "Ima move there and write code for a living." You might have the internet, but its 15 minutes each direction. Nothing interactive works, and while they brought copies of Wikipedia, stack overflow didnt package so easily. Or more simply, can you write a web app without internet access?

Vast majority of documentation and even the websites promoting most web related libraries are autogenerated from git. Run a bash script with a bunch of `git clone` on an Earth based server and and ship the disk image, latency be damned.

Dash [1] does package up StackOverflow and a bunch of library docs too.

[1] https://kapeli.com/dash

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#38

Post by jjk166 »

phkahler wrote: post #16
sosodev wrote: post #5

Does it actually matter if I can? Is using reference material a bad thing? Edit: I know the article touches on that idea briefly but my argument would be "of course it doesn't matter". Sure, I could develop slightly faster with a more encyclopedic memory but I really doubt it would make an observable difference in the long-term. Most of my time isn't spent referencing libraries or syntax but instead I spend most of m…

Let's say Elon starts that colony on Mars and you think "Ima move there and write code for a living." You might have the internet, but its 15 minutes each direction. Nothing interactive works, and while they brought copies of Wikipedia, stack overflow didnt package so easily. Or more simply, can you write a web app without internet access?

And what if you wanted to go camping on the ocean floor? Can you start a camp fire underwater?

That you can imagine some convoluted scenario where a skill could be employed does not mean it is an efficient use of your time to develop that skill, particularly when that scenario is easily avoidable.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#39

Post by dusted »

bch wrote: post #30
dusted wrote: post #9

I can, but it will be basic! I might have to use a JSON file for the backend because I probably can't remember any database libs well enough to use without documentation. However, lots of programming is much closer to plumming than to.. programming.. any time you're using a lib or api, you're just looking up what kind of fittings that comes with and what length of pipe to attach to it.. So don't worry about not being…

> use without documentation Of course people’s projects can be unique, and my work may not be representative of the readers work, but I guess this raises the question: what does “using Google” mean? I frequently use “lots of things” on my computer: man pages, other installed documentation, will browse source code of libraries I’m using, or indeed my own previous work. I can do this if, say, I have no Internet connect…

It's a good point, I take it to mean search for how to use or do something, even as google is becoming worse at finding things, it's still often waaay better than the search functionality available on the websites of many libraries and utilities.

So yeah, I guess I take it to also mean searching through local documentation, but I know that's maybe not what was meant.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#40

Post by matt7340 »

It obviously doesn't matter that much if you can or can't. We all google all day long.

But through my career at various times I've been able to say yes, usually after spending multiple years on a project and the platform/tech its built with.

Speaks to the really enjoyable side effect of productivity and unencumbered expressiveness that comes with being immersed in a platform or technology for a longer period or time.

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