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Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

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Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#271

Post by devchix »

anthk wrote: post #3

Good. I'm tired of fake Economics where the value of a company or the product is not made from the real value of it, while some yuppies get rich in the proccess. The more they cry, the better. Hope is collapses so "middle" and low class workers can get fair prices of what they earn by doing actual hard work. Because this will create a good crash, dont fool about it. It will harm everyone, but at least this Century wi…

"Somebody ought to take society by the four corners of the sheet and toss it all into the air! Everything would be broken, most likely, but at least nobody would have anything, there'd be that much gained!" -- Thénardier, Les Misérables, Marius, Book 8

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#272

Post by NineStarPoint »

gruez wrote: post #167
NineStarPoint wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of things happened. Reagan lowered taxes, increasing the incentive to move money out of your buisness and into other investments. Globalism startedly picking up, meaning a lot of wage growth for the lower classes was outsorced to other countries instead of kept in America. The graph doesn’t capture how total employee compensation has risen a bit more than in that graph due to the explosion of costs in the Ameri…

> increasing the incentive to move money out of your buisness and into other investments how does lower taxes incentivize moving money out of businesses? What investments were they moving into?

Higher taxes on income, dividends, and realized gains incentivize money being reinvested in the business instead of distributed to shareholders. If taking money out of a company creates taxable income, stockholders have an extra reason to press companies to find ways they can use that money to increase value instead.

Basically, an extra incentive for companies to hire more people and do more research instead of do things like stock buybacks.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#273

Post by ruds »

galangalalgol wrote: post #177
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota makes fairly boring products of the last century. Musk is currently shooting rockets into space and deploying a network of satellites. The optics of this cannot be discounted.

Toyota is always a decade behind, it is part of their value proposition. Bronze tools were better than iron for over a century after iron was commonplace. Toyota has a very conservative engineering culture. And the idea is that it makes for more reliability. The overvaluation of tesla is just an extreme example of the overvaluation of the whole market. Every stock has a decade or two of growth baked into the current…

A large component of the time value of money is the rate of return that a dollar today brings in vs a dollar in the future. With super-low interest rates, the time value of money is relatively low and future income is valued relatively highly.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#274

Post by curryst »

davidivadavid wrote: post #261
cobookman wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GME could issue shares and get a large cash infusion into its business. GME could sell some of its shares to get a large cash infusion into its business. Their market cap 19x'd up to ~19B. Having a 1B cash infusion into the business isn't crazy. Imagine what 1B of investment into Gamestop could achieve.

That assumes people will buy said shares. That's contentious at best.

There's a short squeeze; people will have to buy. Most of the shorters would probably love to just clear their short if they could buy at a semi-reasonable price. GME has to know their stock is inflated. They could sell stock for 75% of the current market value and still be making money hand over fist.

That would, however, crash the price.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#275

Post by monoideism »

FabHK wrote: post #137
monoideism wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent isn't claiming GME is "real" economics. Parent is claiming GME will help pull down our current fake system, and help the middle and lower classes receive fair compensation from the system. Whether this approach works or not, I don't know. But the status quo isn't tenable for a democratic society. This chart says it all: https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

> GME will help pull down our current fake system, and help the middle and lower classes receive fair compensation from the system. errr.... no? It won't. At all. How? What will happen is that a few hedge funds will lose a bit, a few hedge funds will make a bit, lots of retail investors will lose a bit (maybe more than they can stomach, individually), and a few retail investors will make a lot. For the middle and low…

To be clear, I agree that by itself, a single stock won't make any systematic difference. I was explaining what the parent was claiming.

Regarding your proposed solution, I fear that thanks in part to Citizens United, the wealthy and powerful have such a strong hold on our government, that any increased taxes will only be funneled back to them through corruption, regulatory capture, and big gov contracts.

Ideally, a large wealth tax on the super-wealthy would simply result in a "citizen's dividend" where each of us would get X amount as a citizen. Using the benefits for government spending will just be used to build a larger federal apparatus that will be used against the middle and lower classes. This should be clear by now.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#276

Post by monoideism »

NineStarPoint wrote: post #84
kuu wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did happen around 1979 to have such a clear change?

A lot of things happened. Reagan lowered taxes, increasing the incentive to move money out of your buisness and into other investments. Globalism startedly picking up, meaning a lot of wage growth for the lower classes was outsorced to other countries instead of kept in America. The graph doesn’t capture how total employee compensation has risen a bit more than in that graph due to the explosion of costs in the Ameri…

This is a good summary of what happened. I'd add a few more: the wealthy invested more and more into the political system in the past 30-40 years, culiminating in the millions pouring in each year following Citizens United. They use their influence to co-opt government power, allowing them to use regulatory capture to fend off competitors, capture big government contracts from forever wars, and loosen regulations to benefit their own interests.

It's a vicious cycle, and if we just use the benefits of a wealth tax to build a larger federal government, that apparatus will only be used against the poor/middle class and for (most of) the wealthy. We have to redistribute this wealth back down to the individual and community level for it to have an effect, since it's harder for ultra-wealthy to co-opt thousands of communities and millions of free-thinking individuals than to co-opt centralized gov power (although manufacturing consent can come into play here).

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#277

Post by gher-shyu3i »

kleer001 wrote: post #265
gher-shyu3i wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, those transactions are also usurious, because they increase the price of the asset in exchange for postponing payments. There are several Hadiths (narrations) that prohibit that transaction.

Nice. I guess I only love it in theory. Humans gunna human.

It's very tempting to deal with interest that's for sure, but we have to sacrifice for the greater good. We already see around us what's happening due to parasitic economic practices.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#278

Post by gher-shyu3i »

scatters wrote: post #267
gher-shyu3i wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We learned how inflation is a monetary phenomenon and tamed it with interest rates Fix one mistake with another mistake? Plus, it's the other way around, interest rates cause more inflation (how else is the government going to pay its debts?). It's a cyclic phenomenon. Without interest, inflation would be a much less problem. Secondly, freeing currencies from gold is another mistake because it allows the government…

Oh, dear. Money isn't created by governments; it's created by banks (and, given demand, shadow banks). Raising interest rates reduces the stock of viable projects thereby reducing lending and money creation, which halts inflation. This is trivial stuff. The laws of millennia ago were appropriate for their time but would be hilariously ill matched to today's world. Look at Turkey to see where that takes you.

> it's created by banks

They work in tandem with the government obviously.

> Raising interest rates reduces the stock of viable projects thereby reducing lending and money creation, which halts inflation. This is trivial stuff.

Setting interest rates to 0 also heavily reduces lending because no one would be incentivized anymore to lend as they're not getting any benefit. This is why in Islam, lending is purely an act of charity since the lender can in no way shape or form be contractually owed any sort of benefit, monetary or otherwise.

This is proven to work up to even recent times before everyone was forced by the West to succumb to their dangerous economic practices. Claiming that these ideas are only suitable for millenia ago is outright false.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#279

Post by gher-shyu3i »

fzil wrote: post #266
whiddershins wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am under the impression that Islam technically bans loans. So one would have to do an investment instead of a loan with interest. Do you know if I have this right?

So I grew up in a traditional muslim household, here's my understanding of things as they've been taught to me. generally there are 2 types of loans, 1. Kharz Hasan (Loan of goodwill) given out to people/institutions without any collateral, sometimes even without a term limit. Its up to lender to decide if they want their money back or forgive the loan which then turns this loan into a "Sadqah" (charity). 2. Loan wit…

> In the Muslim Model, the institutions BUY the property and you pay money. The money you pay goes partly towards buying the property and the partly towards paying "fees" to use the property that you don't completely own.

Check out what the Companions Ibn Abbas and Ibn Mas'oud said about such a transaction. It's still Riba (usurious) because the price of the house or asset is raised in exchange for postponing payment. It's only relatively recently with the heavy influence of Western banks that this "model" has gained some traction, but it remains a usurious transaction and many scholars have spoken against it.

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