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Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

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Re: Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason this is unpopular is because of how obviously incorrect it is. The history of medicine is almost an allegory for why evolved evidence based systems like this to regulate what companies and doctors can do. Time and again, doctors and pharmaceutical companies have done unsafe, harmful and fraudulent things to patients who trusted them. The only reason we have medicine that works now is because we rigorously…

I spent time at a large medical device company. I'm lightly familiar with the FDA submission process. I would not refer to it as rigorous. We were encouraged to keep the information light or the FDA would be easily confused and reject. Rejection had more to do with giving the FDA simple warm fuzzies rather than rigorous data analysis. The FDA process is more an exercise in paperwork, not in rigorous drug/device perfo…

Do you realize the irony in providing a list of FDA recalls while bemoaning their lack of rigor? Lots of these "drugs" were unapproved dietary supplements that the FDA found to actually contain drugs, or drugs that failed QC while on the market, not the pristine batches and data that would have gotten the drug approved in the first place.

To me, it's similar to having more trust for media outlets that post corrections rather than pretending that nothing ever goes wrong. It's a point in their favor that a stamp of approval can be rescinded.

You might have an argument that the companies need to be taken out of the drug approval process entirely, due to issues of hiding data to avoid giving the FDA a hint of anything wrong (or making them "confused" as you say), or maybe we need much stricter rules on data withholding. I'm with you there.

Re: Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

#62
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I’d rather take the J&J which uses old, proven tech. In 5 years we will know a lot more about nRNA vaccine long-term safety, and I’ll be much more comfortable taking an nRNA vaccine at that point. When I’m eligible, I still may take the nRNA, but my preference is on older tech at this point. I fully acknowledge that the nRNA is extremely likely to be safe, but it’s just my preference

Adenovirus vaccines are also a newish tech (not that anything wrong with that, that's why we have safety testing). Its not as bleeding edge as mRNA but its definitely not a traditional vaccine

Don't tell him that. He's willing to get any vaccine at all and the world desperately needs to be vaxxed. If people want to take adenovirus vaxs because they feel its safer I say just let them.

Re: Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

#63
post #16

I'm really struggling to understand these numbers. In some other articles I'm seeing that it offers 100% protection against hospitalisation and death. "The J&J vaccine was 85 per cent effective at preventing severe Covid-19. Twenty-eight days after the jab, it offered “complete protection” from hospitalisation and death." [1] Wouldn't having "severe" infection require hospitilisation? [1] https://www.ft.com/content/d…

I think they are saying none of the hospitalized cases occurred after twenty-eight days, but statistically they can't really say it provides 100% hospitalization prevention at that point even if that is accurate. At lease one expert on CNN indicated protection was continuing to increase throughout the study which is promising. I'd like to see a follow-up.

Re: Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

#64
post #25
post #16

I'm really struggling to understand these numbers. In some other articles I'm seeing that it offers 100% protection against hospitalisation and death. "The J&J vaccine was 85 per cent effective at preventing severe Covid-19. Twenty-eight days after the jab, it offered “complete protection” from hospitalisation and death." [1] Wouldn't having "severe" infection require hospitilisation? [1] https://www.ft.com/content/d…

Presumably severe includes some people who don’t need hospitalization. Some high risk patients can get new monoclonal antibody treatments that may prevent them from needing hospitalization. Some people are sent home from the ED with oximeters and told to come back if their oxygen saturation drops below a certain threshold and a doctor calls them everyday. Hospitals in hard-hit area have to be very judicious about onl…

My grandma got severe covid and was sent home with oxygen tanks and other stuff. She's made it through thankfully.

Rural USA area hit hard.

Re: Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

#65
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet, but you can kinda see it from the data. For Pfizer it was 60-70 after one dose already, iirc

That's only if you include all infections within the two week window between shots. If you look at the tail end (ie, after the shot has time to be effective) it seems more like 90.

The issue with this is that it's the SECOND shot that gives you your long term immunity. If you only get one shot your immunity is allegedly going to wane somewhat quickly.

edit: for pfizer & moderna.

Re: Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

#66
post #16

I'm really struggling to understand these numbers. In some other articles I'm seeing that it offers 100% protection against hospitalisation and death. "The J&J vaccine was 85 per cent effective at preventing severe Covid-19. Twenty-eight days after the jab, it offered “complete protection” from hospitalisation and death." [1] Wouldn't having "severe" infection require hospitilisation? [1] https://www.ft.com/content/d…

I've seen "severe" be measured by oxygen saturation; some people are able to manage severe COVID at home. Some people have to, because there simply isn't any hospital in their area with space for them.

> Some people have to, because there simply isn't any hospital in their area with space for them.

Citation needed on that one. There is a lot of media fearmongering out there that results in outliers and things that are normal practice getting taken out of context and blown up into something scary.

Re: Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

#67

66% protection against getting moderate to severe Covid but 100% protection against death and hospitalization. I have no idea how the FDA can hold back these vaccines in good conscience while peoples are dying by the thousands on a daily basis.

The Novavax vaccine is way better than this one

Re: Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

#68
post #52

66% protection against getting moderate to severe Covid but 100% protection against death and hospitalization. I have no idea how the FDA can hold back these vaccines in good conscience while peoples are dying by the thousands on a daily basis.

I can give you a laundry list right now. For example, millions of vials are cracking around the rim, several of the filling rooms have mold issues, one of the vial hoppers is leaving metal particulates in the vials, weekly OOS for manufacturing impurities..I think the public would freak out if they knew what was happening in the supply chain.

For which vaxes? How do you know this?

Re: Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

#69
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Chest X-rays of asymptomatic patients – those infected but without symptoms – exhibited a severe chest X-ray 70%-80% of the time, but those with COVID-19 symptoms had one every time, she also added." https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/26/fac... There are things that can make living quite uncomfortable. So while yes not everyone will be hospitalized and die, there is still a lot of reasons to get a…

> exhibited a severe chest X-ray 70%-80% of the time With a sample size of what? That's a nonsense statement that can't be scrutinised. Edit, found this: The finding is promising but will require further research given the small size of the study with only 82 patients, mostly male and average age over 50 82 people over the age of 50. It also doesn't mention how healthy these people were. This is typical of pretty muc…

The "70-80%" figure is based on thousands of the doctor's own patients.

https://observer.com/2021/01/covid-long-term-health-impacts-...

It's not a peer reviewed study, and it includes only the people whose situations were severe enough to be sent to a radiologist. But it's enough to conclude that it's more than just a dismissably small number of cases.

Re: Johnson and Johnson single-shot vaccine appears 66% effective in global trial

#70

66% protection against getting moderate to severe Covid but 100% protection against death and hospitalization. I have no idea how the FDA can hold back these vaccines in good conscience while peoples are dying by the thousands on a daily basis.

Personally, I’d rather take the J&J which uses old, proven tech. In 5 years we will know a lot more about nRNA vaccine long-term safety, and I’ll be much more comfortable taking an nRNA vaccine at that point. When I’m eligible, I still may take the nRNA, but my preference is on older tech at this point. I fully acknowledge that the nRNA is extremely likely to be safe, but it’s just my preference

Yeah, I'd personally hedge for 50-70% shots based off tested techniques that inoculates against severe cases. I'll also bias towards options with less onerous cold chain requirements. No part of covid response has been trouble free so far, vaccines rollout will be no different. Have had several front line / medical friends advice to bias away from Pfizer due to behind the scene incompetence. Currently Pfizer is limited to hospital settings in my country due to excess requirements, and guess what, hospital staff has been running ragged for over a year.
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