A lot of this is about Google, not Facebook. Why are we talking about Facebook.
A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]
61–70 of 84 posts
Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]
#62why is this a PDF? Sure for portability or to make it seem like 'official' 'whitepaper' etc....but geez, put it on a website with an added download c'mon
Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just quoting FB's wording and my hunch. As the other commenter gave an example, if you have a niche product which only a fraction of people would be ever interested in, it would help if you can know who those are, and restrict targeting to them. I can search for knitting needles or be viewing a knitting post on Instagram. If an artisan needle seller wants to target his product it doesn't help targeting people who are…
I'd imagine that the advertiser could only show needle ads next to content about sewing / knitting and be very effective at reaching the desired audience without resorting to collecting PII about that audience. Any reason this wouldn't work?
As I wrote in my example, this intent based method works for a big advertiser which is making a mass market product; but say someone producing a niche artisan knitting needle which only say 1 in 100 people who are interested in knitting needles will be interested in, would benefit from targeted advertisement. Otherwise, they would end up spending a lot of money on ad space not worth bidding for.
A nitpick, the advertiser is not collecting and getting PII. FB the ad platform, owns and controls that data.
Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not sure that’s true. All of Apple announcements seem to more broadly target the large data brokers you’ve never heard of. Facebook seems to be making themselves look like the target for browny points, that plus their recent data fuckups means they’re probably the first name that pops into people heads when you say “abuse of peoples data”. But that’s just an inditement of Facebooks dodgy data practices, not evide…
> they’re probably the first name that pops into people heads when you say “abuse of peoples data” > I don’t think Apple gives a shit about Facebook. Why the hell would they? There’s no profit in targeting them specifically. I think you answered your own question. :-) Facebook is a convenient punching bag. Which is the point of an Orwellian enemy, who isn't actually an enemy except for the need of some enemy.
Your premise is still based on the idea that Apple has deliberately made out that Facebook is their enemy, but you’ve provided zero evidence for this. You claim that Apple have implied Facebook, but are you sure it isn’t just you incorrectly inferring Facebook?
If I say “I believe that company’s that abuse my data are bad, and we should do something about that” have I also made Facebook an Orwellian enemy?
Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
They get hit indirectly, not because the small businesses sell ads - but because they buy targeted ads on Facebook (and those targeted ads work). Edit: Smaller companies also rely on these IDs because they aren't able to track in other ways in the way that the large companies can. That said, I still think this ad-driven model is bad and if it became non-viable I'd hope long term privacy restrictions would also make i…
These vague claims this will impact the ability of apparently all small businesses are blown way out of proportion. Small businesses did just fine before FB. If you run an Italian restaurant, how does this impact you? You can still sell advertising to Facebook users in your area because Facebook itself has your location. Facebook still knows you eat at Italian restaurants every Tuesday night because they buy your cre…
I think the issue is a little different than I suggested (though the small business ads are a part of it).
I think this is a worthwhile read: https://stratechery.com/2020/privacy-labels-and-lookalike-au...
> "Small businesses did just fine before FB."
You can't really compare the old pre-internet, pre-amazon world with our current one and assume things that were 'just fine' then still apply.
A local restaurant is a bad example, better examples are small companies making a niche product or independent platforms in a niche. This affects companies buying ads on FB, but also those trying to understand their own customers to compete with Amazon and the other large companies. I don't work in ads, but I've talked to Googlers that do and the ads really do have a big impact for small businesses. I'd believe this is true.
From that Stratechery article:
"Amazon, meanwhile, is increasingly where shopping searches start, particularly for Prime customers, and the company’s ad business is exploding. Needless to say, Amazon doesn’t need to request special permission for IDFAs or to share emails with 3rd parties to finely target its ads: everything is self-contained, and to the extent the company advertises on platforms like Google, it can still keep information about customer interests and conversions to itself. That means that in the long run, independent merchants who wish to actually find their customers will have no choice but to be an Amazon third-party merchant instead of setting up an independent shop on a platform like Shopify.
This decision, to be clear, will not be because Amazon was acting anticompetitively; the biggest driver — which, by the way, will also benefit Facebook’s on-platform commerce efforts — will be Apple, which, in the pursuit of privacy, is systematically destroying the ability of platform-driven small businesses to compete with the Internet giants."
Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they’re probably the first name that pops into people heads when you say “abuse of peoples data” > I don’t think Apple gives a shit about Facebook. Why the hell would they? There’s no profit in targeting them specifically. I think you answered your own question. :-) Facebook is a convenient punching bag. Which is the point of an Orwellian enemy, who isn't actually an enemy except for the need of some enemy.
Your premise is still based on the idea that Apple has deliberately made out that Facebook is their enemy, but you’ve provided zero evidence for this. You claim that Apple have implied Facebook, but are you sure it isn’t just you incorrectly inferring Facebook? If I say “I believe that company’s that abuse my data are bad, and we should do something about that” have I also made Facebook an Orwellian enemy?
> you’ve provided zero evidence for this. You claim that Apple have implied Facebook
There were dozens, maybe hundreds of news media stories yesterday stating that Apple was attacking Facebook, so it's not just me. Here are 2 examples:
https://gizmodo.com/tim-its-pronounced-facebook-1846152682
https://www.engadget.com/tim-cook-privacy-cpdp-2021-slams-fa...
Moreover, the original comment that I replied to said "Apple knows they're going toe-to-toe with Facebook", so I'm not even the first one in these comments to make the suggestion. Some commenters are acting like this all came from me, but it didn't. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25958158
Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd imagine that the advertiser could only show needle ads next to content about sewing / knitting and be very effective at reaching the desired audience without resorting to collecting PII about that audience. Any reason this wouldn't work?
As I wrote in my example, this intent based method works for a big advertiser which is making a mass market product; but say someone producing a niche artisan knitting needle which only say 1 in 100 people who are interested in knitting needles will be interested in, would benefit from targeted advertisement. Otherwise, they would end up spending a lot of money on ad space not worth bidding for. A nitpick, the advert…
Understood. My suggestion was that Facebook "target" based on the content of the post/article/website. Thus a needle ad is shown next to a kitting post. This can certainly be an artisan needle producer buying 1000 impressions...
Fully understand that Facebook is keep the PII close - that's their differentiation.
Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your premise is still based on the idea that Apple has deliberately made out that Facebook is their enemy, but you’ve provided zero evidence for this. You claim that Apple have implied Facebook, but are you sure it isn’t just you incorrectly inferring Facebook? If I say “I believe that company’s that abuse my data are bad, and we should do something about that” have I also made Facebook an Orwellian enemy?
> you’ve provided zero evidence for this. You claim that Apple have implied Facebook There were dozens, maybe hundreds of news media stories yesterday stating that Apple was attacking Facebook, so it's not just me. Here are 2 examples: https://gizmodo.com/tim-its-pronounced-facebook-1846152682 https://www.engadget.com/tim-cook-privacy-cpdp-2021-slams-fa... Moreover, the original comment that I replied to said "Apple…
Now we've come full circle.
You claim Apple "Created" an Orwellian enemy. But all Cook did was describe a company which spies on people to make money, We didn't need him to call out who it is because everyone knows who it is based on the Orwellian description.
Yet Apple somehow (You claim) "Created" them.
Facebook is this Orwellian, we all know it based on what we know about Facebook. Tim Cook didn't fabricate this, it's public knowledge.
Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
These vague claims this will impact the ability of apparently all small businesses are blown way out of proportion. Small businesses did just fine before FB. If you run an Italian restaurant, how does this impact you? You can still sell advertising to Facebook users in your area because Facebook itself has your location. Facebook still knows you eat at Italian restaurants every Tuesday night because they buy your cre…
I think the issue is a little different than I suggested (though the small business ads are a part of it). I think this is a worthwhile read: https://stratechery.com/2020/privacy-labels-and-lookalike-au... > "Small businesses did just fine before FB." You can't really compare the old pre-internet, pre-amazon world with our current one and assume things that were 'just fine' then still apply. A local restaurant is a b…
> A local restaurant is a bad example, better examples are small companies making a niche product or independent platforms in a niche. This affects companies buying ads on FB, but also those trying to understand their own customers to compete with Amazon and the other large companies. I don't work in ads, but I've talked to Googlers that do and the ads really do have a big impact for small businesses. I'd believe this is true.
This is kind of my point.
People keep echoing this phrase "Harming Small Business", the implication is it's an issue which affects all small businesses. It doesn't.
It's not even clear based on your post what type of business is impacted, or how many. Just some niche products... what does that even mean? Sellers on Etsy?
Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]
#70A lot of this is about Google, not Facebook. Why are we talking about Facebook.
Are we witnessing a veiled announcement of Apple Search where it would be a key driver for Apple One adoption?