Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility • Hacker News Board

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#231

Post by wolf550e » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

tompccs wrote: post #212

jancsika wrote: post #121

A Moment in the Life of an HN Genius: 1. Reads a technical document outside their domain. 2. Feels dumb because they don't have a grasp on any of the concepts. 3. Too busy to use the very internet which some of them probably helped build to magically render learning materials to the screen in front of them at zero marginal cost. 4. Sees the word "manipulation" 5. Substitutes the laymen's definition of "manipulation"…

I am so sick of this 'stay in your lane' attitude. Time and time again, experts have been shown to have consensus opinions which are wildly off from reality. You can almost set your watch to how often an outsider will analyse a situation from first principles and make money off the 'experts', especially in the stock market. You're welcome to your opinion but this appeal to authority is seriously wearing thin. Pretty…

The non-consensus outsiders who make progress have done the reading. They know what the consensus is, they know all the concepts and the jargon, and they disagree about something. Your post can be interpreted to mean "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge". That's anti-vax thinking and argument. That is not a way to make progress.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#232

Post by josephorjoe » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

iamacyborg wrote: post #177

josephorjoe wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever else happens, Robinhood should not survive this. They clearly violated their customers' trust, so their customers should leave them. And I will be completely unsurprised if when the dust settles it turns out they acted illegally. Also, they suck at lying.

You may want to check what happened to certain brokers on Jan 15th 2015 before you start chucking accusations out. It’s clear you don’t understand how these brokers work and how they interface with the broader market.

It is completely clear that they betrayed their customers' trust.

I know some people think "but that's not illegal so they did nothing wrong". Those people are bad and should feel bad. And I think in this case enough customers are angry that robinhood will not escape the consequences of its actions.

I only said I would be unsurprised to learn they acted illegally.

I admit the "suck at lying" thing is more my opinion than fact at this point.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#233

Post by metalliqaz » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

tompccs wrote: post #212

jancsika wrote: post #121

A Moment in the Life of an HN Genius: 1. Reads a technical document outside their domain. 2. Feels dumb because they don't have a grasp on any of the concepts. 3. Too busy to use the very internet which some of them probably helped build to magically render learning materials to the screen in front of them at zero marginal cost. 4. Sees the word "manipulation" 5. Substitutes the laymen's definition of "manipulation"…

I am so sick of this 'stay in your lane' attitude. Time and time again, experts have been shown to have consensus opinions which are wildly off from reality. You can almost set your watch to how often an outsider will analyse a situation from first principles and make money off the 'experts', especially in the stock market. You're welcome to your opinion but this appeal to authority is seriously wearing thin. Pretty…

> Time and time again, experts have been shown to have consensus opinions which are wildly off from reality. You can almost set your watch to how often an outsider will analyse a situation from first principles and make money off the 'experts', especially in the stock market.

When? Who? Are you talking about, say, Dr. Burry and the mortgage bubble? Because he was definitely an 'expert' already.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#234

Post by MattGaiser » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

tompccs wrote: post #212

jancsika wrote: post #121

A Moment in the Life of an HN Genius: 1. Reads a technical document outside their domain. 2. Feels dumb because they don't have a grasp on any of the concepts. 3. Too busy to use the very internet which some of them probably helped build to magically render learning materials to the screen in front of them at zero marginal cost. 4. Sees the word "manipulation" 5. Substitutes the laymen's definition of "manipulation"…

I am so sick of this 'stay in your lane' attitude. Time and time again, experts have been shown to have consensus opinions which are wildly off from reality. You can almost set your watch to how often an outsider will analyse a situation from first principles and make money off the 'experts', especially in the stock market. You're welcome to your opinion but this appeal to authority is seriously wearing thin. Pretty…

Non-consensus outsiders who later succeed are usually still experts in the field, not people who are completely unaware that parts of a field exist or people who joined up in the past few hours.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#235

Post by dagw » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #210

dagw wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big hedge funds are apparently losing money (billions!) A few hedge funds (of different sizes) are indeed losing billions. A few other hedge funds have taken the opposite side of this bet and are making money. The vast majority of hedge funds have no position in this stock and are completely unaffected. In addition a bunch of HFT shops and similar making a lot money off the volatility and order flow all this has…

I mean, some hedge funds are making money, sure. But the point is that, collectively , billions of wealth have so far been transferred from institutional investors to regular investors.

But the point is that, collectively, billions of wealth have so far been transferred from institutional investors to regular investors.

Perhaps, but for every dollar that gets transferred to a small handful of regular investor, I suspect at least 10, if not a 100, is probably being transferred to different institutional investors.

I just don't buy the Wall Street vs The People narrative. This is Wall Street vs Wall Street with The People picking up scraps from the battle field and hoping they don't get stepped on.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#236

Post by mcountryman » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #131

dkrich wrote: post #75

There’s a long history of similar occurrences that follow along a common line: whatever appears to support individual investors will be the path taken by politicians and regulatory bodies. Right now it appears that the public wants to be able to trade on their terms because there is this narrative that the little guy is finally sticking it to the big bad hedge funds. In reality there is probably very little truth to…

> there is this narrative that the little guy is finally sticking it to the big bad hedge funds. In reality there is probably very little truth to this. Which part has little truth to it? The big hedge funds are apparently losing money (billions!) on Gamestop, unless that's being mis-reported. Some of the "little guys" (reddit people) definitely were a part of the reason for that.

Not a financial expert however, Citadel is a market maker rather than just a hedge fund like Melvin.

Money is lost when a retail investor holds onto their shares not just when the stock price rises.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#237

Post by xster » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

tompccs wrote: post #212

jancsika wrote: post #121

A Moment in the Life of an HN Genius: 1. Reads a technical document outside their domain. 2. Feels dumb because they don't have a grasp on any of the concepts. 3. Too busy to use the very internet which some of them probably helped build to magically render learning materials to the screen in front of them at zero marginal cost. 4. Sees the word "manipulation" 5. Substitutes the laymen's definition of "manipulation"…

I am so sick of this 'stay in your lane' attitude. Time and time again, experts have been shown to have consensus opinions which are wildly off from reality. You can almost set your watch to how often an outsider will analyse a situation from first principles and make money off the 'experts', especially in the stock market. You're welcome to your opinion but this appeal to authority is seriously wearing thin. Pretty…

This seems like a strawman. The OP isn't arguing against outsider/non-expert discussion. He's just satirizing HN's specific tendencies to spin off of a headline/article first glance into a let-me-teach-you-something fan fiction vs fan fiction argument.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#238

Post by BoorishBears » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

nrmitchi wrote: post #152

BoorishBears wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It boggles the mind people think hedge funds can't profit off a mad rush like this...

Why do you think "hedge funds" are not? The small ones that were caught in a bad position at the beginning? Sure, they probably didn't. But most other funds, or trading desks, or market makers, or brokerages (etc) are most likely printing money right now.

... what? My comment is literally saying hedge funds (like Citadel...) are profiting off this.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#239

Post by tootie » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

dkrich wrote: post #75

There’s a long history of similar occurrences that follow along a common line: whatever appears to support individual investors will be the path taken by politicians and regulatory bodies. Right now it appears that the public wants to be able to trade on their terms because there is this narrative that the little guy is finally sticking it to the big bad hedge funds. In reality there is probably very little truth to…

As much as there's a backlash of "it's ok when hedge funds do it" the GME situation is still an absolutely massive distortion. The company is still worth the same $11/share it was a few months ago. Maybe $20 if you think the new leadership will improve sales. It's not better because it's little guys doing it. It's still abusive.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#240

Post by xapata » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

kodah wrote: post #185

jancsika wrote: post #121

A Moment in the Life of an HN Genius: 1. Reads a technical document outside their domain. 2. Feels dumb because they don't have a grasp on any of the concepts. 3. Too busy to use the very internet which some of them probably helped build to magically render learning materials to the screen in front of them at zero marginal cost. 4. Sees the word "manipulation" 5. Substitutes the laymen's definition of "manipulation"…

Personally, I think smart people just do this. When I got sick with COVID I cannot begin to describe the number of people who became doctors during this unprecedented time , only to send me outdated comments, articles, and speculation. All of these people thought they were smarter than the instruction I received from a real doctor, nurse practitioner, and the CDC. These were smart people, though, and mostly (but not…

> a real doctor, nurse practitioner, and the CDC

Sadly, many doctors and nurses are statistically illiterate. I know, because I (try to) teach them statistics. Remember, the Surgeon General of the CDC said that, "[masks] are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus," perhaps in some misguided belief that avoiding panicked mask-buying was more important than a mask-wearing public.

[Sorry for insulting our healthcare heroes, but ... evidently y'all haven't been responsible for teaching them evidence-based medicine. It ain't easy.]