A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]

#21

Post by Zelphyr » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

_qulr wrote: post #9

pwinnski wrote: post #2

Apple knows they're going toe-to-toe with Facebook, and they don't seem to plan to lose.

This feels to me like Apple creating a convenient Orwellian enemy. They're not even competitors, because Apple doesn't have a social network, Facebook doesn't sell computers, and indeed Facebook is currently among the grossing apps in the iOS App Store, 30% of which Apple gets. If Facebook was as terrible as Apple makes them out to be, why would Apple allow Facebook in their App Store and take 30% of the generated re…

Because Facebook users are Apple customers. If Apple kicked Facebook off the platform you know as well as I do that the number of people screaming at Apple for doing so would be overwhelming. And that's before the media got involved.

It's the lesser of two evils for Apple. So instead of pissing off their customers, they have chosen to piss off Facebook.

Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]

#22

Post by sneak » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

user-the-name wrote: post #17

sneak wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Jobs quote on page 2. All iOS devices and all M1 macs maintain a persistent serial-number-linked connection to Apple at all times, even if you don't use iCloud, don't have an Apple ID, don't use FaceTime/iMessage, don't use the App Store, and have analytics turned off. No indication that this is happening is displayed, and there's no way to turn it off. Your client IP discloses the city the device is in, and the…

Again, it would be nice if you presented evidence of your claims.

It's called APNS, and the evidence is in the network traffic of every M1 mac and every iOS device. This isn't a secret, the way APNS works has been documented for years.

Would you like a pcap? I can send you a pcap.

Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]

#23

Post by user-the-name » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

_qulr wrote: post #16

user-the-name wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple gets no revenue from Facebook, their app is free and has no in-app purchases.

Please check the App Store before you make obviously false and easily refutable assertions.

Hmm, looks like a recent feature. I doubt it is particularly large.

Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]

#24

Post by newfeatureok » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

coreyrab wrote: post #14

The way Apple paints this is that it's them vs. evil Facebook. Don't get me wrong, Facebook has certainly overstepped several times in their data mining practices, but a lot of these changes will almost exclusively hurt small and medium sized businesses that have been able to inexpensively reach target customers for niche and/or local products.

I'd argue it's impossible to enact any change that would only hurt large businesses and not small/medium sized businesses.

Also, for niche products wouldn't keyword advertising be just as effective?

Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]

#25

Post by ogre_codes » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #10

I think Apple will win this war and FB will lose. Nobody cares that small businesses benefit from targeted FB ads except FB and small businesses, customers certainly don’t, users don’t. The small group of users that would care about that is the same group that hates Facebook and Amazon already and won’t be persuaded by FB on this or really even listen. Apple’s argument is clearer and more directly benefits their user…

> Nobody cares that small businesses benefit from targeted FB ads except FB and small businesses, customers certainly don’t, users don’t.

This is about Facebook, not small businesses. There is little evidence that small businesses will be significantly impacted by this. I'm sure some ad-supported developer firms will be hit, but most small businesses won't notice this.

Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]

#26

Post by cecja » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #13

djrogers wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share any examples or references of where Apple is being dishonest here?

The Jobs quote on page 2. All iOS devices and all M1 macs maintain a persistent serial-number-linked connection to Apple at all times, even if you don't use iCloud, don't have an Apple ID, don't use FaceTime/iMessage, don't use the App Store, and have analytics turned off. No indication that this is happening is displayed, and there's no way to turn it off. Your client IP discloses the city the device is in, and the…

You are literally asked to read their terms of services when you first start your phone or mac. You are just spreading FUD like all the other dropship cunts around here. Fuck your t-shirt and fuck off.

Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]

#27

Post by user-the-name » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #22

user-the-name wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, it would be nice if you presented evidence of your claims.

It's called APNS, and the evidence is in the network traffic of every M1 mac and every iOS device. This isn't a secret, the way APNS works has been documented for years. Would you like a pcap? I can send you a pcap.

APNS is the notification service? Notification tokens are randomly generated, and are refreshed regularly. I have heard zero suggestion anywhere that they would be used for any kind of tracking, other than routing notifications to the correct device.

Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]

#28

Post by avianlyric » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 3:51 PM UTC

coreyrab wrote: post #14

The way Apple paints this is that it's them vs. evil Facebook. Don't get me wrong, Facebook has certainly overstepped several times in their data mining practices, but a lot of these changes will almost exclusively hurt small and medium sized businesses that have been able to inexpensively reach target customers for niche and/or local products.

Just because you built a business on technologies and techniques that cause social harm, doesn’t mean you have the right to continue using those technologies and techniques after society has decided they no longer wish suffer the harm they cause.

Certainly some business will die, but I suspect the vast majority will find other inexpensive avenues of reaching their customers, without having to step on their privacy.

Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]

#29

Post by _qulr » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 3:51 PM UTC

user-the-name wrote: post #23

_qulr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please check the App Store before you make obviously false and easily refutable assertions.

Hmm, looks like a recent feature. I doubt it is particularly large.

> I doubt it is particularly large.

Facebook is currently 43 in the list of the top grossing apps. I'm still running iTunes 12.6 which shows these lists.

Re: A Day in the Life of Your Data [pdf]

#30

Post by pwinnski » Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 3:51 PM UTC

_qulr wrote: post #9

pwinnski wrote: post #2

Apple knows they're going toe-to-toe with Facebook, and they don't seem to plan to lose.

This feels to me like Apple creating a convenient Orwellian enemy. They're not even competitors, because Apple doesn't have a social network, Facebook doesn't sell computers, and indeed Facebook is currently among the grossing apps in the iOS App Store, 30% of which Apple gets. If Facebook was as terrible as Apple makes them out to be, why would Apple allow Facebook in their App Store and take 30% of the generated re…

This week, Mark Zuckerberg declared that Apple is one of their biggest competitors[0].

Apple may not see Facebook as a competitor, but that feeling is not mutual.

Given Apple's focus on privacy combined with their huge footprint in the US, Facebook may see them as an existential threat, and be using the word "competitor" to represent that.

0. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/facebook-ceo-zuckerberg-says...