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Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

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81–90 of 166 posts

Re: Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

#81

A ban is ineffectual without consequences. Criminal prosecution of police chiefs is what's needed, IMO.

Police are largely protected from criminal prosecution because they know exactly how cruel and inhumane the criminal justice system is.

If they are indicted they often have special rules for how and when they will be arrested / interrogated through union contracts. A way to solve this is legislation at the local level that a) makes some of these specific unequal rules illegal, but also b) fixes the inhumane parts of the justice system for everyone.

Re: Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re allowed to do that too

They're allowed to lie to suspects, not the courts where parallel construction happens. A defense attorney can't get evidence stricken when it came from dubious sources when they lie in court about the source.

> The two senior DEA officials, who spoke on behalf of the agency but only on condition of anonymity, said the process is kept secret to protect sources and investigative methods. "Parallel construction is a law enforcement technique we use every day," one official said. "It's decades old, a bedrock concept."

https://web.archive.org/web/20130809014315/https://www.reute...

Re: Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

#83
post #72

At some point governments will have to address the elephant in the room. Across much of the globe, modern police forces have been empowered and emboldened to such a degree that many departments, and their members, feel institutionally above the law. In no other occupation, that I can think of, can so many rules and directives be flouted without losing ones job, as is the case with modern police. Its frankly insulting…

American police don’t feel institutionally above the law, for all intents and purposes they are. Qualified immunity, a doctrine made up out of whole cloth by the courts, means that cops often can’t be prosecuted or even sued for the most egregious of conduct. And the lengths the courts will go to protect cops are ridiculous, to the point where the courts have upheld the idea that a cop didn’t know that attacking a surrendering suspect in a “grassy ditch” was illegal, even though doing the same thing in a wooded area had precedent. And of course, since the cop was let off the hook, no new precedent was made.

And even when cops do finally cross the line, they just move towns or states and get a new job. Police unions have fought long and hard to avoid even the slightest forms of accountability; in most states being fired for cause isn’t enough to get your license pulled. This protection for bad cops comes at the cost of us all, both in terms of settlements paid by our money, and by unnecessary deaths inflicted on the poor and vulnerable by the state.

Re: Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

#84
post #73
post #72

At some point governments will have to address the elephant in the room. Across much of the globe, modern police forces have been empowered and emboldened to such a degree that many departments, and their members, feel institutionally above the law. In no other occupation, that I can think of, can so many rules and directives be flouted without losing ones job, as is the case with modern police. Its frankly insulting…

> we (civilians) I just want to remind everyone that police are civilians too. I also sometimes forget

As armed representatives of the state, I would argue that they are not. They’re not military, but they’re definitely not civilians.

Re: Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

#85
post #72

At some point governments will have to address the elephant in the room. Across much of the globe, modern police forces have been empowered and emboldened to such a degree that many departments, and their members, feel institutionally above the law. In no other occupation, that I can think of, can so many rules and directives be flouted without losing ones job, as is the case with modern police. Its frankly insulting…

> This is unlikely to change until police are held to the exact same legal and prosecutorial rigors as those they police.

Forget that! Police should be held to a “higher” standard. These are people we’ve trusted to walk around with guns and big sticks. Shit’s so backwards.

Re: Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

#86
post #72

At some point governments will have to address the elephant in the room. Across much of the globe, modern police forces have been empowered and emboldened to such a degree that many departments, and their members, feel institutionally above the law. In no other occupation, that I can think of, can so many rules and directives be flouted without losing ones job, as is the case with modern police. Its frankly insulting…

> In no other occupation, that I can think of, can so many rules and directives be flouted without losing ones job, as is the case with modern police.

That isn't really true. Have you read half the corporate policies published by large companies? Neither have most of their employees. Nobody cares and they're not enforced until Something Bad happens, at which point it's time to open the book for the first time to see which rule the designated scapegoat can be found to have broken.

The problem with the police is that the institutional Something Bad doesn't align with the actually bad things that happen when they break the rules. The institutional Something Bad is bad press.

The actual bad thing is sending an innocent person to prison while a guilty one stays free to continue committing robberies and murders. Or the same sort of "bring me the man, I'll find you the crime" except used by the police against dissidents and anti-authoritarians instead of the people presiding over some corporate incompetence.

But when that doesn't result in bad press, nobody gets punished and then it keeps happening.

This is why it's important to have a media willing to hold any administration's feet to the fire. Ironically, getting the election results many of the people who care about this wanted is having the opposite effect, as now the pressure is off to actually do anything about the problem.

Complaining about it when the other guy is in is rhetorically advantageous; actually doing something about it when you're in costs political capital. So now we get to see what they do. But based on the existing media rhetoric, the implication seems to be more police state rather than less.

Of course, the media is not just The Media, it's also this. So write your Congress critters.

Re: Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

#87

A ban is ineffectual without consequences. Criminal prosecution of police chiefs is what's needed, IMO.

Money drives everything AFAIK. So if laws existed that allowed a state to withhold budget to a county that had cops not following rules, then the county would take interest. If the counties could withhold funding from cities that had bad cops, the mayors would take interest. Or perhaps the laws could permit budget reallocation. I doubt any such laws would ever get passed, but in theory this could help keep people focused.

Another challenge is sunk cost. San Diego for example has LED street lights that are also cameras and microphones, being used for machine learning. Would they ever rip those out if they were deemed illegal? Or would they just pause the collection and wait for people to forget? [1]

[1] - https://www.govtech.com/smart-cities/Smart-Streetlight-Data-...

Re: Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facial recognition has a disturbing habit of "catching" the wrong people. "We have video of a crime, arrest these people", is how facial recognition is advertised (and you bought the story). But it keeps being used as "there is a 87% chance that this person walking down the street in Atlanta is the person who robbed a liquor store in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan in 2006, go arrest that guy"

That's a problem with police procedures and training of those who use facial recognition, not facial recognition per se.

Indeed. Let's not forget, eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable as well.

Re: Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

#89
post #11

Let me be controversial for a second but this is not such a big deal. because they were always doing it only slower and manually. Its same with deepfakes. I am not happy or supporting either but with rise in computational power some things are unavoidable. Police always used photo id databases in manhunts. And deepfakes existed in Victorian era. We need to make sure that auditing agencies monitoring the government an…

"Sometimes a difference in scale makes a difference in kind" (heard in a CGPGrey video, but I'm sure the quote predates it)

Something like it goes back a couple of thousand years or more, see the note about Stalin and "Quantity has a quality all its own." at https://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Joseph_Stalin&old...

Re: Police Say They Use Facial Recognition Despite Bans

#90
post #79
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we (civilians) I just want to remind everyone that police are civilians too. I also sometimes forget

civilian noun 2a : one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force

Why would firefighters not be civilians?
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