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Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

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Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#71
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be? It's an open, publicly-documented market manipulation event. How can there be any question about it? You might decide that this kind of manipulation is OK due to it's stated goals, but that doesn't make it not manipulation.

Whether or not it is market manipulation, who do you think the SEC could realistically go after here?

Maybe one or two specific individuals, but you're right in general. That's the part that frightens me the most here. The tactics that are being used are equivalent to the ones used by sideshow street racers and political riots: if we get thousands of individuals to break the law at the same time and place then law enforcement will be ineffective.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#72
post #11

What are the odds of a flash crash in the next week as a result of this activity? The system of banks and market makers and clearing houses is a always way more coupled than the the owners let on... history shows they don't know how to risk manage these sorts of situations.

From a distance, this is all a storm in a teacup. It's a small handful of stocks, and every single one in S&P500 is waaaay bigger, in terms of trading volumes and market cap. Anything can happen, but in finance terms, this is tiny so far.

The issue isn't GME market cap vs the S&P 500. It's that the clearing houses, exchanges and other intermediaries that guarantee every trade may go bankrupt due to the $15+ billion loss on options that they may have to cover.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#73
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be? It's an open, publicly-documented market manipulation event. How can there be any question about it? You might decide that this kind of manipulation is OK due to it's stated goals, but that doesn't make it not manipulation.

Ever think that they just like the stock?

It kinda feels like that to me. The nostalgia value of owning 1 share of GameStop is pretty important considering the joy that going to that store brought to me as a child. I can totally understand if 20 million people also want in, especially given the idea that we're fighting against a short position to cause a squeeze. It's like a dumb feel-good movie where we had a bake-sale and everyone buys a cookie for an unreasonable price to help our favorite local grocery store avoid bankruptcy by the evil liquidators who want to turn it into a Walmart.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#74
post #58
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be? It's an open, publicly-documented market manipulation event. How can there be any question about it? You might decide that this kind of manipulation is OK due to it's stated goals, but that doesn't make it not manipulation.

Applying this logic, perhaps we can get "professional" stock ... manipulators off the TV. CNBC can go away entirely. Marketing speak would be replaced with value charts. Ban all forums that discuss specific stock values. Then prevent people from buying stocks in groups. Mutual funds, ETFs, etc... all of these abstractions on abstractions, we can throw them away. The more abstractions we throw away, the closer we get…

Absolutely. I mean, what's different now in comparison to Ackman shorting hotels then going on CNBC and saying hotels are going to burn financially? Except for the fact it's one rich guy compared to thousands (maybe millions?) of not so rich folks.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#75
There’s a long history of similar occurrences that follow along a common line: whatever appears to support individual investors will be the path taken by politicians and regulatory bodies.

Right now it appears that the public wants to be able to trade on their terms because there is this narrative that the little guy is finally sticking it to the big bad hedge funds. In reality there is probably very little truth to this. However, support for the individual investor plays extremely well which is why you see politicians from both sides joining forces on this issue. A rumor makes it halfway around the world while the truth is still putting its pants on. Nobody is interested in the subtleties around these issues where there almost certainly should be regulations in place or at least warnings from those who do actually know better. But late in bull markets when speculation is running wild those who try to be the voice of reason are run over by the masses until they shut up and go away.

Galbraith wrote about this in the 1950’s and if you read his account of the 1929 crash the parallels are eerily similar. Nobody wants to be told they aren’t making money due to skill but because they’re caught up in a dangerous bubble. In the aftermath of a crash when tremendous sums are lost, nobody blames the speculators, they always find another scapegoat- the regulators, the brokerages, the hedge funds- whomever. It doesn’t matter so long as the speculator is held up as a victim. I expect this to end no differently.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#76
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever think that they just like the stock?

That's the thing: there is NO QUESTION as to the motives of the r/wsb traders. They are overtly conspiring to raise the price of shares in order to force specific parties to buy it. That's manipulation!

>force specific parties to buy it

I think they forced themselves to buy it by taking the short position they did.

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#77
post #32

There's been some speculation that what WSB are doing could be market manipulation or otherwise illegal. The fact that this statement only mention retail investors in the context of protecting them makes me suspect that the SEC's not going for it.

Could be? It's an open, publicly-documented market manipulation event. How can there be any question about it? You might decide that this kind of manipulation is OK due to it's stated goals, but that doesn't make it not manipulation.

People are free to purchase stock how they want to. If those people collect together and discuss potentially profitable strategies for trading who is to stop them? Do you think its possible youve fallen ill to the rhetoric that this is bad purely because the rich people didn't get their way?

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#78
post #32

There's been some speculation that what WSB are doing could be market manipulation or otherwise illegal. The fact that this statement only mention retail investors in the context of protecting them makes me suspect that the SEC's not going for it.

Could be? It's an open, publicly-documented market manipulation event. How can there be any question about it? You might decide that this kind of manipulation is OK due to it's stated goals, but that doesn't make it not manipulation.

The SEC has some case studies on this that are really itneresting...

https://www.sec.gov/files/Market%20Manipulations%20and%20Cas...

The idea that there has to be behind the scenes coordination (i.e., non-publically available communication/information) runs pretty clearly through all of them, but IANASEC

Re: Statement of SEC Regarding Recent Market Volatility

#79
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be? It's an open, publicly-documented market manipulation event. How can there be any question about it? You might decide that this kind of manipulation is OK due to it's stated goals, but that doesn't make it not manipulation.

Whether or not it is market manipulation, who do you think the SEC could realistically go after here?

Reddit or any future platform hosting WSB and the like, same logic that took Parlor out of biz.
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