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Transfer Stocks Out of Your Robinhood Account

robinhood.com

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Re: Transfer Stocks Out of Your Robinhood Account

#81

Post by mike00632 »

fbelzile wrote: post #60
toast0 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding from other threads is that RH accounts default to being a margin account, and that most people don't opt-out of margin. I would never apologize for RH, I thank them for pushing mainstream retail commissions to $0, but I don't do business with them (and never have) because they don't seem to have focused on the important parts of being a brokerage.

This is similar to thanking Google for bringing the cost of email down to $0. There sure is a lot of upside to the average user, but a lot of the costs are just shifted behind the scenes (data collection, privacy). I'm not saying it has no place in the market, but a more informed user might calculate the risk and decide to use a fee-based brokerage instead (like ProtonMail vs Gmail).

Right, but with Robinhood the hidden costs are actual money. They give their users inferior prices and then collect on the arbitrage.

Re: Transfer Stocks Out of Your Robinhood Account

#82

Post by adrr »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #58
adrr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what crime should be be charged with?

Market manipulation is a crime. Stopping purchases so short sellers don't lose all their money is pretty obvious manipulation.

Market manipulation is the wrong crime and requires actual transactions. People keep saying he committed a crime but have failed to provide an actual law he violated. Or they point at some SEC violation which aren’t crimes and handled in civil court.

Re: Transfer Stocks Out of Your Robinhood Account

#83

Post by yakz »

ditonal wrote: post #13

The RH apologists are going on long winded explanations about clearing houses (and to some extent there’s elements of “it’s too complex for your little brain”). But even to the extent it’s true, if I put in 5k from my checkings into RH and buy stock, why does Rh need all this liquidity to get orders filled? I understand turning margin accounts off, but that’s it . Past that, at best robinhoods business model is highl…

Hopefully some (many) people will take it to heart that Robinhood users are suckers.

This wasn't "just" privacy violations or psychological manipulation with ads, this was Robinhood deciding what to do with YOUR money to cover their ass. Whether they lent it to you or not doesn't matter, because if the bad trade were going the other way, then you, the sucker, would absolutely be on the hook.

Whether it's fraud or flawed or whatever else is beyond my experience or knowledge, but after today I think ending up on the wrong side of the deal with Robinhood again will rightfully be met with suggestions that you should have known better.

Re: Transfer Stocks Out of Your Robinhood Account

#84

Post by kasey_junk »

owenversteeg wrote: post #77
kasey_junk wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note DEGIRO is a Dutch broker that requires strict residency requirements. They are covered by a regulatory regime that outlaws payment for order flow. You’ll pay a fee for trading through them even if you are engaging in activity that would get you a rebate on the exchange so they are taking their cut in other ways.

DeGiro is an excellent broker, though. They're basically _the_ serious broker in Europe - for wealthy Europeans it's either them or IBKR. Also, exchange rebates are usually very small amounts of the total trade, so for people who the fixed fees matter the most (people with less money in their account) the rebates would be insignificant.

I don’t have a position on degiro other than comparing it to American fee free brokers is apples to oranges both for business and regulatory reasons.

Re: Transfer Stocks Out of Your Robinhood Account

#85

Post by koolba »

mike00632 wrote: post #81
fbelzile wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is similar to thanking Google for bringing the cost of email down to $0. There sure is a lot of upside to the average user, but a lot of the costs are just shifted behind the scenes (data collection, privacy). I'm not saying it has no place in the market, but a more informed user might calculate the risk and decide to use a fee-based brokerage instead (like ProtonMail vs Gmail).

Right, but with Robinhood the hidden costs are actual money. They give their users inferior prices and then collect on the arbitrage.

> They give their users inferior prices and then collect on the arbitrage.

That’s false. They’re legally required to get the national best bid or ask just like any other broker. Routing trade flow doesn’t change that, it just gives the recipient the ability to match or beat those prices. If there was a better price elsewhere they’re mandated by law to attain that price. If they’re not doing that the SEC would be en route.

Re: Transfer Stocks Out of Your Robinhood Account

#87

Post by amluto »

stainforth wrote: post #47
snypher wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think with Robinhood Instant you can by stock before the bank transfer has cleared, so they need cash on hand to fill the orders. The rising demand x rising order amount means they probably blew out their liquidity allowance. With new accounts starting with Instant capability, they are all on margin until the transfer clears.

> their liquidity allowance. But only on specific stocks they selected? They still had liquidity for other stocks?

I have no actual knowledge about securities clearing, but:

If I were a clearer, and Robinhood were my client, and they had some collateral in deposit with me and a ridiculously large long position in GME in excess of the posted collateral, and GME were suddenly extremely volatile, then I would consider requiring more collateral and/or telling Robinhood that they may not purchase more GME. Because my #1 job as a clearer is to make sure that, at the end of the day, all the money I am owed is actually there.

If GME crashes, then the total portfolio of Robinhood and its clients will lose a lot of value. In theory, Robinhood and its clearer has no skin the the GME game, but, in practice, there are quite a few examples of financial companies taking massive hits when their clients go under.

So yes, the clearer could easily be willing to let Robinhood buy more stock that is seen as uncorrelated to GME but be extremely uncomfortable with the size of Robinhood’s position. This is similar to how Robinhood won’t let its clients hold positions when they have insufficient margin to cover the anticipated possible loss.

Re: Transfer Stocks Out of Your Robinhood Account

#88

Post by newacct583 »

yakz wrote: post #83
ditonal wrote: post #13

The RH apologists are going on long winded explanations about clearing houses (and to some extent there’s elements of “it’s too complex for your little brain”). But even to the extent it’s true, if I put in 5k from my checkings into RH and buy stock, why does Rh need all this liquidity to get orders filled? I understand turning margin accounts off, but that’s it . Past that, at best robinhoods business model is highl…

Hopefully some (many) people will take it to heart that Robinhood users are suckers. This wasn't "just" privacy violations or psychological manipulation with ads, this was Robinhood deciding what to do with YOUR money to cover their ass. Whether they lent it to you or not doesn't matter, because if the bad trade were going the other way, then you, the sucker, would absolutely be on the hook. Whether it's fraud or fla…

> Hopefully some (many) people will take it to heart that Robinhood users are suckers.

While this is all true (and realistically Robinhood has killed their brand and probably won't survive), those same users were also suckers for falling for this ridiculous GME pump.

What Robinhood did was absolutely in self-interest, but it was trying to cover up a mess that fundamentally wasn't of its own devising. They were either going to get sued by a bunch of people that got fleeced in a clear pump and dump scam or they were going to get sued by users they prevented from losing money, and they chose the latter.

Re: Transfer Stocks Out of Your Robinhood Account

#89

Post by snowwrestler »

ditonal wrote: post #13

The RH apologists are going on long winded explanations about clearing houses (and to some extent there’s elements of “it’s too complex for your little brain”). But even to the extent it’s true, if I put in 5k from my checkings into RH and buy stock, why does Rh need all this liquidity to get orders filled? I understand turning margin accounts off, but that’s it . Past that, at best robinhoods business model is highl…

I think any attempt to understand what Robinhood did today, that does not also try to account for the other brokerages that limited GME trading today, is probably going to miss the mark.

Re: Transfer Stocks Out of Your Robinhood Account

#90

Post by calmworm »

OiNG wrote: post #21

there is a lot of misinformation out there about what happened today. its starting to to look like this all happened due to default concerns and the resulting changes in necessary collateral. I have no skin in this game (neither GME or Robinhood), but lets try to stay informed and not grab pitchforks based on non proven allegations.

Your speculation and saying “a lot of misinformation out there” doesn’t help.

Allowing traders to only sell, and blocking buying is wrong. Who is allowed to buy at that point? Very few retail traders, but every major player who has an upside down stake still can. The price was then tamped down during the lock out so hedges and old money are able to minimize their loses. Anyone pretending this didn’t happen is delusional. RH enabled it.

RH lost a lot of their customers. Possibly millions of them by the time this is over.

To be fair though, it wasn’t just RH and GME either though. Multiple brokers locked out multiple symbols.

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