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Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

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Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#191

Post by Nbox9 »

asiachick wrote: post #76
Nbox9 wrote: post #72

This highlights a need in the market for tools to help moderate a community. Imagine a tool that automatically detects hate speech and either auto-deletes or brings it to a moderator’s attention. Certain communities are being highjacked by extremist, racist, and simply malicious actors. The current method of reading chat and banning users doesn’t scale when sudden growth occurs. If effective moderation can occur at s…

This sounds dystopian to me. I already can't stand Google Docs grammar checker trying to re-write my sentences to match some AI's idea of a correct sentence. Sure, when it actually detects a mistake I'm happy but 20% of the time it's just wrong and feels like it's trying to take my personality out of my writing. Your suggestion sounds like a step to toward the Black Mirror Season 2 "White Christmas" episode where the…

I think the current situation where a herd of deplatformed white supremacist and conspiracy theorist cultist can hijack your community is dystopian. Leaders in a community should be given the power to determine who is and isn’t a part of it.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#192

Post by jakemal »

lenkite wrote: post #178
WhompingWindows wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bold statement, you think it's so obvious? Do you think not being able to shut down child pornographic trading communities is a lesser evil than shutting down WSB discord?

This tired justification of "child pornography", "terrorism" and "hate speech" has been beat to death to ban just about everything these days. Why not ban cars ? After all both paedos and terrorists use them to carry out their evil, nefarious deeds. They both also use toothpaste. I think is perfectly fine being un-able to shutdown sites for "social justice". If it ever escalates to being a major criminal problem, a l…

> a legal case can be filed and it can go through the courts before the ban-hammer falls

Once a community that cannot be shut down is declared illegal, what happens? One of the major points of decentralized communities is that there is no effective "ban hammer" to shut them down.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#193

Post by jfengel »

Nbox9 wrote: post #72

This highlights a need in the market for tools to help moderate a community. Imagine a tool that automatically detects hate speech and either auto-deletes or brings it to a moderator’s attention. Certain communities are being highjacked by extremist, racist, and simply malicious actors. The current method of reading chat and banning users doesn’t scale when sudden growth occurs. If effective moderation can occur at s…

Some of this exists, and both Quora and Facebook (among others) use it extensively. Both hate speech and porn are good targets for machine learning. It needs supervision, but it can take a lot of load off human moderators.

Open source implementations exist, e.g.:

https://github.com/t-davidson/hate-speech-and-offensive-lang...

I suspect more message board will want to start applying these sooner rather than later. Most have already figured out that they need anti-spam tools, rather than it coming as a surprise when they roll things out and it fills up with bots. The technology is similar.

You mention being able to share that information across boards, and I don't know of any widespread implementation of that. You can, at least, let somebody else handle your authentication, which slightly slows their ability to create new accounts when you blacklist one. I'd like to see those sites distinguish "aged" accounts, so that it at least takes some effort or cost to use a new account.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#194

Post by lenkite »

jakemal wrote: post #192
lenkite wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This tired justification of "child pornography", "terrorism" and "hate speech" has been beat to death to ban just about everything these days. Why not ban cars ? After all both paedos and terrorists use them to carry out their evil, nefarious deeds. They both also use toothpaste. I think is perfectly fine being un-able to shutdown sites for "social justice". If it ever escalates to being a major criminal problem, a l…

> a legal case can be filed and it can go through the courts before the ban-hammer falls Once a community that cannot be shut down is declared illegal, what happens? One of the major points of decentralized communities is that there is no effective "ban hammer" to shut them down.

Then it is declared illegal and simply continues to exist. If this is truly a major crime (loss of life, major financial loss), then governments have many means outside of technology to shut stuff down: old-fashioned detective work, cross-national police work, enforcement of treaty obligations or even para-military action in severe cases.

Right now, a sneeze can ban you on the cloud. And the bans are just a click away - and in many cases not even that.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#195

Post by reidjs »

ALittleLight wrote: post #62
reidjs wrote: post #59

I love the trading advice, just buy and hold. This is the next generations occupy Wall Street

That seems to be contrary to the sentiment expressed in the reddit post - "There's also too much political bullshit in a community that was never ever political. The only way I want to occupy Wall St is in a suit myself or rent-free in the mind of a blown up short."

It seems to me instead of holding ineffective street protests they are actively trying to get a piece of the pie, or destroy it in the process.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#196

Post by betwixthewires »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #172
betwixthewires wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's becoming obvious that not being able to shut down bad communities is the lesser evil.

That's a bold statement, you think it's so obvious? Do you think not being able to shut down child pornographic trading communities is a lesser evil than shutting down WSB discord?

Child pornography is illegal, IMO rightly so, and people trading in it should be arrested.

I will never cease to be amused by people who invoke CP to defend censorship when a discussion about control of online discourse is ongoing. We are talking about companies shutting down a group organizing against wall street hedge funds on the pretext that they're Nazi white supremacists, we aren't talking about pedos physically abusing children for profit. If you expect that this is a gotcha and that I have no choice but to declare that I think CP should be protected or else I have to support banning WSB from discord you really need to refine your conversational skills.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#197

Post by rland »

nsator wrote: post #189
rland wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what WSB did was irresponsible and dangerous, then all of Wall Street is irresponsible and dangerous. That's the point here. The only difference is that regular people made money this time.

Mostly done by one hedge fund but it's easy to jump on the band wagon to overgeneralize and criticize the entire Wall Street. You are essentially proving my point..

So it's nihilism all the way down. I suppose then that shutting this trade down to protect the hedge fund is morally equivocal to letting them lose their shirts.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#198

Post by kordlessagain »

kordlessagain wrote: post #28
natrik wrote: post #3

"We're suffering from success and our Discord was the first casualty. You know as well as I do that if you gather 250k people in one spot someone is going to say something that makes you look bad. That room was golden and the people that run it are awesome. We blocked all bad words with a bot, which should be enough, but apparently if someone can say a bad word with weird unicode icelandic characters and someone can…

> You know as well as I do that if you gather 250k people in one spot someone is going to say something that makes you look bad. The problem with this statement is the shifting use of "you". I might know that a mob acts like a mob, but I'm certainly not going to be surprised if "my" rights are affected if I'm part of the group from which the mob manifested. That doesn't mean the decision to alter my rights is directe…

Evidently my comment is also a good mob detector!

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#199

Post by grey_earthling »

hoseja wrote: post #104
grey_earthling wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you don't get to hang out with your friends anymore Yeah you do, just not in someone else's space. Like if you want to bellow out some Klingon opera, you can, but they're gonna throw you out of Tesco. Is "my house, my rules" really so hard to understand?

Surely you can't be serious after what happened to Parler. You just can't period, short of building your own infrastructure.

I agree there ought to be publicly-owned infrastructure.

But the infrastructure we have is privately-owned, so yeah, the owners can do what they like.

We'll never get rid of greedy quasi-monopolies unless we let them do a crap job so that people demand alternatives.

This is how market capitalism is supposed to work. (And similarly, we get rid of market capitalism by letting it demonstrate that it just doesn't work very well.)

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#200

Post by bambataa »

ericmay wrote: post #155
bambataa wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying Discord openly permits groups that share child porn? Or discusss how to find it? I could understand the latter if the discord itself has nothing illegal but that’s still pretty shocking.

I know for a fact that it happens. Certainly they would stop it if they knew about it, but they don’t police this stuff like you might think. They rely on their users to self-report for the most part. [1] “ On April 23, 2020 at 1:55 p.m., the Marysville Police received a tip that child pornography had been uploaded while using a discord online service.” There are groups like this all over the place. I know who this p…

Don't services that accept large amounts of user-generated content scan for illegal stuff against a database of known material? I find it odd that Discord wouldn't do that.
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