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Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

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181–190 of 281 posts

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#181
post #118

> The only difference in this case is the 99-percenters are reaping the massive gains while Wall Street titans are seeing a genuine upheaval of the norms of investing. Well, funnily enough, the earliest 1% of the 99% will reap massive gains, while the majority will lose their shirt when the stock finally collapses.

And this is how the speculation (I mean, stock) market works: some insiders get the lion share, a few lucky get some crumbs, and the majority absorbs the loses. In this case the lion didn't get his share, and it made him angry.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#182
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm tired of fake Economics where the value of a company or the product is not made from the real value of it I still don't understand how Tesla is valued so high when they're still figuring out panel gaps.

I feel like Tesla is sort of an opposite situation. These short-sellers that Reddit is going after, would swamp the media with FUD articles to drive Tesla stock down. They bet on Tesla to lose, and when Tesla didn't lose, they tried to drive them out of business by manipulating the media.

I have some direct career experience with this, and without getting into details, I think in the TSLA case (and related cases) the short sellers didn't do much aside from going on TV and saying "I'm short and this is my reasoning."

The media coverage (I don't want to use the pejorative word "manipulation" and I have no reason to believe the coverage was intentionally biased) largely favored Musk and his companies, at that time and in the present day.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#183
post #65
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is one of the few modern companies whose value actually makes sense to me. They actually make something! that people want to buy! that's way better than most of ad-tech which seems like a multi-layered pyramid scheme.

So does Toyota, which makes more things that more people want to buy, and yet is only valued at a quarter of Tesla.

I feel like the questions around Tesla's valuation are two-fold. The question as to why Tesla is so high is obvious, but the secondary question is why are existing automakers so low? Why is the market cap for existing automakers lower than total revenue?

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#184
post #34
post #3

Good. I'm tired of fake Economics where the value of a company or the product is not made from the real value of it, while some yuppies get rich in the proccess. The more they cry, the better. Hope is collapses so "middle" and low class workers can get fair prices of what they earn by doing actual hard work. Because this will create a good crash, dont fool about it. It will harm everyone, but at least this Century wi…

> I'm tired of fake Economics where the value of a company or the product is not made from the real value of it I still don't understand how Tesla is valued so high when they're still figuring out panel gaps.

The bull case for Tesla is that the car side of things is looking really good, but is only part of the story. In this narrative the opportunities in battery technology and utility scale power storage are not being taken into consideration by the bears.

I don't really have an opinion on it, but that's the case.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota makes fairly boring products of the last century. Musk is currently shooting rockets into space and deploying a network of satellites. The optics of this cannot be discounted.

Go to the third world and you'll see that reliability and longevity give Toyota a huge cachet that is basically unrivaled. That effect is amplified in countries that have import tariffs on automobiles, because the secondary market is large. Not everyone in the world buys cars to pleasure themselves. For most people, automobiles are a tool and their dependability is more important than their excitement factor. Also, a…

> Also, anyone who buys a Tesla because they like SpaceX rockets is an absolute dunce. That's like subscribing to the Washington Post because you like the navel oranges that Amazon Fresh delivers.

You're not getting it. Musk is running Tesla as a tech company, NOT a "car" company. That's why he's been able to build the company through years and years of unprofitability, as Bezos did with Amazon.

You're also not understanding the stock market (which is timely). Once that stock is sold to the market, the stock price only affects people's bonuses. It doesn't have any impact on the company's production or revenue.

People buy (or sell) stock based on whether they think the price is going to go up or down. It's that simple. Tesla doesn't pay a dividend, and doesn't confer any meaningful voting rights (as Musk has secured a supermajority). There is LITERALLY no other reason to hold Tesla stock than to think it will go up. There's no other value to it.

Why would it go up? Because of good press. Good press comes from a lot of events. The company doing well, financially, is great news! But rockets and satellites are just as good, if not better, than reports of high-quality automobiles.

There's a very, very thin relationship between non-voting, non-dividend-paying stock, and a company's fundamentals. It's mostly a shared illusion that it's based on financials which makes the stock market work at all.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#186

Shorting a stock 140% is the market manipulation and should be criminal. Anything a large group does after some hedge fund pulls that stunt is fair game.

Events like these make it clear why the vast majority of Wall Street practices are banned in Islam (including shorting). It's a terrible predatory practice that is not just gambling, but also creating artificial risk that does not correspond to the value being created from such transactions. This can easily collapse the entire market as we already saw in 2008 and many times before.

The sooner we prohibit these terrible exploitative practices (lending money with interest being the first to go), the better and stronger and more fair the economy will become. Unfortunately most people don't know, and they jump to things like "tax the rich" which has no meaning really.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to guess its because panel gaps don't matter as much as most of the other features of a car.

If you can't get something as simple as panel gaps right, why would I trust you to get the brakes right?

By installing the brakes right. There's no correlation between those two things.

It would be like me saying to another automaker, how can I trust your brakes when the entertainment computer routinely crashes? Or how can I trust your suspension when your CVTs don't last as long as they should?

These things don't correlate that way.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#188
post #88
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm tired of fake Economics where the value of a company or the product is not made from the real value of it I still don't understand how Tesla is valued so high when they're still figuring out panel gaps.

Because the rest of car companies are still figuring out that they even should be figuring out electric.

I mean based on popular understanding, they KNEW they should be figuring out electric cars (and have been!) but:

1- Oil companies pressured the industry/government to keep supporting their platform 2- Most car companies didn't consider themselves battery companies, which Tesla obviously is. They sell the product "cars" not so much the underlying technologies that make them function. Thinking of Tesla as a car company and not a battery/energy company is a misunderstanding of where they spend their energy. It's like thinking Google is a search engine and not an adverting/information brokerage company.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#189
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. There isn't any one entity that is short 140% of the GME float. 2. If a stock shouldn't be allowed to be sold short past 100% then we should outlaw subletting apartments. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to pay to borrow something, and then rent it out? How is that manipulative in and of itself?

Could you elaborate on how shorting past 100% is comparable to subletting? How is shorting alike borrowing something?

Ok, so, there's a concert by in 4 weeks.

Tickets are sold at 100$. But the show is extremely popular, so the tickets are traded, and the price shoots up to 300$. You think the price is still going to go higher, so you buy a ticket for 300$. The price goes up to 400$, you sell the ticket, and you made 100$. (You were long, and the price went up - you made money.)

Now, the price goes to 5000$. You think, well, that's way too much - you're sure the price is coming down. So, what to do? Well, your friend Mike is going to go to the concert, he has a ticket, and he wants to keep it. He doesn't care what the price is, he's going to the concert. So, you say, listen, Mike, can I have the ticket for a week or so? I'll give it back before the concert. He says, sure, and hands you the ticket.

You go and sell the ticket for $5000. A week later the ticket price has come down to a more reasonable $4000. So, you go buy a ticket for $4000, and hand it back to Mike. You received $5000, spent $4000, and made $1000, because you were short, and the price went down.

That's the basic mechanic of short selling.

Now, assume the price is going up though. The price could go up to $100000. The date of the concert is coming closer. Mike wants his ticket back. Dang, you have to go out and buy the bloody ticket for $100000. You lost your shirt, because the price went up while you were short a ticket.

Ok, price is back at $5000. You think the price is going to fall, and want to short. You put an ad in the paper saying that you have a ticket to sell. Joe calls and wants to buy the ticket. However, Mike is out for lunch. You tell Joe to transfer the money, you'll mail him the ticket. When Mike comes back, you ask Mike to borrow the ticket. He might or might not give it to you - if he doesn't then you either have to buy it from someone else, or you're stiffing Joe.

That's a naked short.

Re: Reddit's GameStop, AMC surge is the new Occupy movement

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla will figure out panel gaps before GM can figure out OTA updates

A vehicle should never need an OTA update and shouldn't have a mechanism to automatically receive one.

Weird, my last recall would have been much easier as an OTA.
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