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Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

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Re: Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

#881

Post by thr0waway2 »

oehpr wrote: post #374
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There wouldn't be anything wrong with that. There'd be a lot right with it, honestly - I would be trumpeting it as a clear victory of the little guy over snobby funds who don't think anyone else can understand finance. But what's happening right now is almost certainly a pump and dump with a short squeeze as a facade. I've seen a lot of commenters who seem to be grievously misled about the actual mechanics of a short…

I haven't heard anything to suggest that the short sellers are forced to buy back the stock either. This is a stock has clearly caught public's attention, Once the hype cycle is over, why wouldn't it regress to the mean? Who's going to believe that the stock stays at this level over the long term? Fun to talk about though. This is a very entertaining story.

There is, large market moves down over last few days are mostly due to hedge funds selling off longs to cover their shorts. If you look at GSVIP ETF (GS ETF for most loved names by hedge funds) it was down 4% yesterday. The short squeeze is real but I think funds are mostly out of it now (or ones remaining in the short have shorted at higher prices and in reasonable proportion of AUM). There's also a direct negative correlation between short interest and Russel 2000 performance over the last few days.

Re: Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

#882

Post by ballenf »

thr0waway2 wrote: post #872
baybal2 wrote: post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're specifically buying/selling short dated out of the money options in order to move the price. This exactly what stock market speculation is about, is it?

Not when moving the price is the goal. If you trade specifically to create an unfair impression of the supply and demand of a stock that's market manipulation. Thing is no one is going to prosecute a randomer on the internet for throwing $5k at an option especially when there's no proof that it was done in bad faith.

I just don't get how WSB is engaging in market manipulation more than the 136% shorts were.

Re: Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

#883

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

ZGDUwpqEWpUZ wrote: post #785
Traster wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your standard every newspaper, every TV channel, every website that refuses to publish my views is censoring me. It's an absurd standard to call censorship. Discord has made no attempt to stop anyone saying anything, they're just chosen not to lend these people their megaphone.

This is one of the more stupid soundbites the pro-censorship crowd has come up with. A good red flag, though. Discord reacted to how the platform they had already given was being used. That's different, practically and morally, from NBC not giving them a TV show.

"Pro-censorship" is such a ridiculous, extremist term. You can't just pretend everyone in the world falls into either a "for" or "against" censorship group. Everybody (well, 99.99%, maybe) accepts that some censorship is necessary, but that not everything should be censored.

Re: Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

#884

Post by webmobdev »

WanderPanda wrote: post #862
bko wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And how to do it? You get people to invest in a stock that is expected by the industry to go belly up. A lot of the people involved aren't just buying and holding. They're specifically buying/selling short dated out of the money options in order to move the price. Some understand the market microstructure and the various levers they have to make the price move using what is effectively leverage. > Seriously. It's t…

Why is the solution always to either shut something down or to regulate? Why is educating people to act more responsibly never ever considered an option?

We require regulation, just as we require the police, because education doesn't matter to people willing to disregard ethics and harm others for their own gains.

Re: Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

#885

Post by Jonnax »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #860
Jonnax wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord doesn't market themselves as being neutral and they have community guidelines: https://discord.com/guidelines

Anyone has community guidelines, i could write on my wall with a crayon "we get pissed at the pub on tuesday' and call that community guideline. It does not convey moral rights or place you above criticism What is that statement meant to convey?

I think you're confused. Their community guidelines are part of their terms of service. You can write whatever on your wall, it's your home, your community.

If you want to use their service you have to follow their rules.

Turns out that Discord doesn't like people using the terms "Retard" and "Autist" in a disparaging way.

They don't want that kind of discourse to be part of their community.

In the same way, I'm guessing that you're not going get far on this forum calling people "retards"

If you want to have your own community where you want to have that kind of discourse, you can self host a forum. Instead of Discord consider IRC, it's an open standard, and anyone can host a server.

You don't need AWS, you just need an internet connection. You just need to find a hosting provider that's willing to host it. Of which there are plenty.

Re: Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

#886

Post by ballenf »

jariel wrote: post #826
jug wrote: post #777

It does feel like a watershed moment regarding hedge funds. This is the first time netizens capitalize on hedge fund short favorites and it has been surprisingly easy to cause an absolute catastrophy in the order of billion losses for them. I heard Melvin Capital may even have gone bankrupt? And how to do it? You get people to invest in a stock that is expected by the industry to go belly up. Seriously. It's that eas…

I'm sorry but this is a possibly irresponsible take for at least a few reasons. The populism on this issue is completely out of touch with reality. 1) As the stock pops due to irrational upwards pressure - the hedges funds might lose a bit, but in reality a lot of 'regular people' will be left holding the bag. When the stock inevitably crashes, those 'regular people' will lose a lot and it will probably be a more mea…

What about retail investors who looked at Gamestop before all this and thought it seemed like a reasonable investment, only to get wiped out by "irrational downward pressure" from hedge funds conspiring to short the stock 136%?

We'll have to wait and see a bit, but the huge pop in Gamestock was likely more the result of funds covering shorts, not retail investors continuing to buy at these prices. So it feels really disingenuous to blame retail for these wild swings when they would not have been possible without the irresponsible hedge fund trading that came before.

Re: Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

#887

Post by jeegsy »

mewse wrote: post #770
betwixthewires wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tired old argument and it isn't convincing or effective. There's a big difference between some kids screaming in your coffee shop and a community on a website supposedly dedicated to free discussion. A more apt comparison would be a group in a corner having a conversation at a rock concert. Suddenly this argument appears less apt. And while some are screaming for these sites to get shut down over it, most o…

> The internet needs a true public square Honest question: why?

For one thing, conversations are a lot easier to have when there is an implicit rule that context is always considered when evaluating word usage. For example, the word 'autist' in the context of 'stonks' and 'wsb' is not understood to mean an attempt to mock people with disabilities and therefore unlikely to get anyone offended as a result.

Re: Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

#888

Post by baybal2 »

thr0waway2 wrote: post #872
baybal2 wrote: post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're specifically buying/selling short dated out of the money options in order to move the price. This exactly what stock market speculation is about, is it?

Not when moving the price is the goal. If you trade specifically to create an unfair impression of the supply and demand of a stock that's market manipulation. Thing is no one is going to prosecute a randomer on the internet for throwing $5k at an option especially when there's no proof that it was done in bad faith.

> If you trade specifically to create an unfair impression

What is a "fair impression," it's all up to owners of the paper to decide on selling price, nobody else can.

> Not when moving the price is the goal.

Market transactions don't move the price, its people doing them do.

Re: Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

#889

Post by argonaut »

ballenf wrote: post #882
thr0waway2 wrote: post #872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not when moving the price is the goal. If you trade specifically to create an unfair impression of the supply and demand of a stock that's market manipulation. Thing is no one is going to prosecute a randomer on the internet for throwing $5k at an option especially when there's no proof that it was done in bad faith.

I just don't get how WSB is engaging in market manipulation more than the 136% shorts were.

Shorting a stock because you genuinely believe the company is crap is not market manipulation.

To be clear, market manipulation is very vague and very broad, and from what I've read the SEC is only going after you if there was fraud or lying involved. Most of WSB's activity is not illegal market manipulation.

Re: Discord bans r/WallStreetBets server, subreddit went private for a while

#890

Post by psychlops »

bko wrote: post #832
jug wrote: post #777

It does feel like a watershed moment regarding hedge funds. This is the first time netizens capitalize on hedge fund short favorites and it has been surprisingly easy to cause an absolute catastrophy in the order of billion losses for them. I heard Melvin Capital may even have gone bankrupt? And how to do it? You get people to invest in a stock that is expected by the industry to go belly up. Seriously. It's that eas…

> And how to do it? You get people to invest in a stock that is expected by the industry to go belly up. A lot of the people involved aren't just buying and holding. They're specifically buying/selling short dated out of the money options in order to move the price. Some understand the market microstructure and the various levers they have to make the price move using what is effectively leverage. > Seriously. It's t…

> And there will be more laws made targeting individuals engaging in this sort of activity (basically coordinating with groups of people).

They don't make laws for this any more, it will be stopped by some obscure regulatory agency.

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