Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us? • Hacker News Board

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#71

Post by _ifvv » Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 6:48 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #61

_ifvv wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They definitely referred to themselves as autists/retards in a self-deprecating manner but that's hardly the same thing. I fail to see how 'autist' is any less of a slur than e.g. 'trap' or 'gay', when used in the right (wrong) context. It's not a racial slur, but it's quite certainly a slur.

I'm not sure what your point is. There are appropriate and inappropriate ways to use words. Making fun of the neuro-atypicals is inappropriate, joking with likeminded folks in a community built around such is likely appropriate. You've just that word you are complaining about, should you be banned?

> You've just that word you are complaining about, should you be banned?

The commenting guidelines state: Be kind. Don't be snarky. [...] Don't sneer. Regardless, I will indulge your curiosity.

1) There are certainly other terms in use on WSB that one could take offense to. I personally find this one to be particularly problematic. (The fact that I am myself autistic probably plays a big role in this ;)) 2) I have posted many comments here on HN, and as far as I know this one and the one you replied to are the only ones I've posted on the topic of slurs. I fail to see why I should be banned over this discussion.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#72

Post by Nbox9 » Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 6:50 AM UTC

This highlights a need in the market for tools to help moderate a community. Imagine a tool that automatically detects hate speech and either auto-deletes or brings it to a moderator’s attention. Certain communities are being highjacked by extremist, racist, and simply malicious actors. The current method of reading chat and banning users doesn’t scale when sudden growth occurs.

If effective moderation can occur at smaller levels, like discord channels or subreddits, then those communities won’t been to be removed by the larger platform. This would also be helpful for startup social media platforms that have yet to bring enough revenue to afford a facebook sized moderation team.

Technically speaking it can do things like:

* Flag posts that contain a blacklist of words, including non-obvious spellings of said word (using non-standard Unicode characters in place of letters)

* Cross reference IP addresses or user names with banned users in other communities

* Notify moderators of trending slogans, phrases, or hashtags that have non-obvious extremist roots.

* Identify images containing extremist/hateful content

* Flag content that contains any political discussion for communities that want to be completely apolitical.

* Flag pornography

EDIT: To be clear, the target audience for this would be community moderators/admins or startup social networks that haven’t built their own moderation infrastructure.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#73

Post by _ifvv » Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 6:54 AM UTC

blackearl wrote: post #66

_ifvv wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They definitely referred to themselves as autists/retards in a self-deprecating manner but that's hardly the same thing. I fail to see how 'autist' is any less of a slur than e.g. 'trap' or 'gay', when used in the right (wrong) context. It's not a racial slur, but it's quite certainly a slur.

It makes no sense to pick a specific word and draw an arbitrary line. You can be far more offensive without any "slurs" by asking if one's mother was frequently drunk while pregnant.

Yes, and I see no problems with being offensive in a joking or ironic manner (as seems to be the case on WSB). However, when you decide to use a slur to do so, you are deciding to insult an entire subgroup of the population as collateral damage.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#74

Post by llbeansandrice » Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 6:58 AM UTC

tomglynch wrote: post #13

> We wrote software to do most of the moderation for us but that software isn't allowed to read the Reddit new feed fast enough and submit responses, and the admins haven't given us special access despite asking for it. Interesting that they made software to moderate but reddit either doesn't want to or can't handle the throughput required to run it. These threads are some of the biggest ever seen on reddit. What hap…

Reddit provides pretty much no support at all for reasonable moderation tools and has as recently as this month migrated services and taken away key features in the process.

Most often mods are complicit in the bullshit that the sub participates in (trump related subs, /r/fatpeoplehate, etc). In this case I can see the mods wanting to keep the community afloat but reddit banning them for reasons which effectively become out of their control or unable to moderate.

Even the “official” Automoderator bot I think is just a underpowered cluster running some python.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#75

Post by DiggyJohnson » Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 7:00 AM UTC

vbsteven wrote: post #70

ALittleLight wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is. There are appropriate and inappropriate ways to use words. Making fun of the neuro-atypicals is inappropriate, joking with likeminded folks in a community built around such is likely appropriate. You've just that word you are complaining about, should you be banned?

Joking among friends using slurs is not appropriate in my eyes. Doesn’t matter if the slur is based on neurodiversity, race, age, gender or something else.

I just cannot understand this take, genuinely.

How can you know what is a slur and what is not when judging the way others communicate in their relationships? What if it’s a nickname from childhood? What if...anything really?

How on earth would you take action on this point, besides teaching our children to be kind, thoughtful, and curious.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#76

Post by asiachick » Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 7:00 AM UTC

Nbox9 wrote: post #72

This highlights a need in the market for tools to help moderate a community. Imagine a tool that automatically detects hate speech and either auto-deletes or brings it to a moderator’s attention. Certain communities are being highjacked by extremist, racist, and simply malicious actors. The current method of reading chat and banning users doesn’t scale when sudden growth occurs. If effective moderation can occur at s…

This sounds dystopian to me. I already can't stand Google Docs grammar checker trying to re-write my sentences to match some AI's idea of a correct sentence. Sure, when it actually detects a mistake I'm happy but 20% of the time it's just wrong and feels like it's trying to take my personality out of my writing.

Your suggestion sounds like a step to toward the Black Mirror Season 2 "White Christmas" episode where the main character gets ban from all social interaction (not just online) forever until death

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#77

Post by Kranar » Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 7:04 AM UTC

vbsteven wrote: post #70

ALittleLight wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is. There are appropriate and inappropriate ways to use words. Making fun of the neuro-atypicals is inappropriate, joking with likeminded folks in a community built around such is likely appropriate. You've just that word you are complaining about, should you be banned?

Joking among friends using slurs is not appropriate in my eyes. Doesn’t matter if the slur is based on neurodiversity, race, age, gender or something else.

People of various backgrounds often refer to themselves or close friends of theirs by what would otherwise be offensive slurs. That goes for black people, LGBT people, women, Asians, Jews, heck even white people often refer to themselves or another white person they are close with using a slur. There is actually evidence that people who refer to one another using slurs that would otherwise be offensive do so to strengthen social bonds with each other and there's some interesting game theory for why this is the case.

It's also quite common among comedians and other entertainers to make fun of their own ethnicity using slurs or use slurs in various performances.

You personally may not find it appropriate and that's a subjective point of view that you are entitled to have, but consider whether you have a good rational justification for it or whether you are exercising too much caution to the point that you are getting offended on behalf of others even when those others are not themselves offended.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#78

Post by melomal » Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 7:05 AM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #11

> On both Discord and Reddit, wallstreetbets users frequently refer to themselves collectively as “retards” and “autists,” and have been known to deploy the kinds of racial slurs and deliberately offensive language that have become commonplace in 4chan-style posting forums. I read WSB daily for years and cannot recall a single usage of a racial slur. They definitely referred to themselves as autists/retards in a self…

Yup, I've been on WSB for some serious time now and sure they call each other autists/retards to no end but nothing racial. F##K cancel culture.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#79

Post by heyoni » Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 7:05 AM UTC

vbsteven wrote: post #70

ALittleLight wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is. There are appropriate and inappropriate ways to use words. Making fun of the neuro-atypicals is inappropriate, joking with likeminded folks in a community built around such is likely appropriate. You've just that word you are complaining about, should you be banned?

Joking among friends using slurs is not appropriate in my eyes. Doesn’t matter if the slur is based on neurodiversity, race, age, gender or something else.

Why? You mentioned that you don’t ever think it’s ok but never mentioned why.

Re: Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

#80

Post by joubert » Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 7:16 AM UTC

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #75

vbsteven wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joking among friends using slurs is not appropriate in my eyes. Doesn’t matter if the slur is based on neurodiversity, race, age, gender or something else.

I just cannot understand this take, genuinely. How can you know what is a slur and what is not when judging the way others communicate in their relationships? What if it’s a nickname from childhood? What if...anything really? How on earth would you take action on this point, besides teaching our children to be kind, thoughtful, and curious.

> How can you know what is a slur and what is not when judging the way others communicate in their relationships? What if it’s a nickname from childhood?

How can you know what is an insult and what is not when judging the way others communicate in their relationships? What if it’s a nickname from childhood?

How can you know what is a threat and what is not when judging the way others communicate in their relationships? What if it’s a nickname from childhood?