How does it differ from Briar?
Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access
71–80 of 118 posts
Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only p2p messenger I've used that hasn't suffered too badly from "blank canvas" is Manyverse. It's technically not a dedicated messenger (more like a p2p encrypted Facebook equivalent, with a p2p FBMessenger equivalent built-in as a side feature), but that aspect just makes it a lot easier to find people to chat with. It's unfortunately not quite as stable/performant as Briar though (yet).
I did have a bit of a play with Manyverse (and with SSB itself in the past) and it looks interesting. The lack of syncing between desktop and mobile SSB accounts is a bit of a pain which I think will hinder adoption until they come up with a solution to that. I do worry that a lot of these newer messengers and networks are operating on a memory of what social networking was like in 2010. Quite a few at least handle p…
What on Earth us Facebook Events? During a pandemic lockdown?
Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
WiFi supports peer to peer stuff just fine. Before the internet was pervasive me and my friends would play starcraft/minecraft over ad-hoc wifi networks with link local addresses. Cell phone OSes automatically disconnect from these of course, there's no way to connect to the ad/telemetry services so what good would it be anyway?
> WiFi supports peer to peer stuff just fine Not to mention that there is huge mesh networks around the world deployed by private persons, all using WiFi over KMs of distance.
Any examples? Very interesting.
Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access
#74A fascinating idea, I wish you a lot of luck in this endeavor! If I were going to go this route, that is, to engineer a network not dependent on the Internet -- I'd first go down to the most fundamental principle of WiFi, Bluetooth, ZigBee, EDGE, EVDO, LTE, etc. -- and that most fundamental principal is RADIO . From there, I'd ask the question -- how can any device which implements one or more of the wireless protoco…
I'd love someone with knowledge-experience with radio to chime into the feasibility of such a system, what the constraints and potential legality of it could be. I'd imagine a mesh network like this could be most useful during natural disasters that disable wired/powered communications, maybe for wartime anti-tyranny - however radio waves could be blocked/tracked and targeted afaik, so maybe not foolproof for that us…
Only[1] height above terrain matters for VHF radio and up. Unless you pay the big bucks for power and space on a tower or the top of some building, it doesn't matter how impressive your modulation gain is or how powerful your transmitter is or how high of gain your antenna is. Your software is barely relevant.
The thing that makes the cellphone mesh network work is that they spend lots of money getting their antennas up high above the terrain and getting power to them.
[1] Yes, there's sporadic e tranmission but it's just that, sporadic. And yes, there's troposcatter but that literally requires kilowatts and highly directional large antennas.
Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access
#75A fascinating idea, I wish you a lot of luck in this endeavor! If I were going to go this route, that is, to engineer a network not dependent on the Internet -- I'd first go down to the most fundamental principle of WiFi, Bluetooth, ZigBee, EDGE, EVDO, LTE, etc. -- and that most fundamental principal is RADIO . From there, I'd ask the question -- how can any device which implements one or more of the wireless protoco…
I love the way you thought about solving the problem Peter. You clearly have a lot of experience peeling back the layers of technology. I wish more people left thought out comments like yours.
Let me know if you're interested in brining to life your suggestion :)
Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access
#76> Berty does not and will not need blockchain in its protocol This is one of the first things I look for around decentralized communications+apps these days, and I am very happy to see no blockchain here.
> The main concept of the Berty Protocol is the "group", a virtual place where multiple devices can share messages and metadata using OrbitDB, which itself relies on IPFS. Doesn't IPFS rely on blockchain?
Not for basic features. There is discussion about using smart contracts via ethereum to enable some eCommerce/dynamic kind of flows in a distributed way, but there are non-blockchain alternatives being talked about too.
Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access
#77A fascinating idea, I wish you a lot of luck in this endeavor! If I were going to go this route, that is, to engineer a network not dependent on the Internet -- I'd first go down to the most fundamental principle of WiFi, Bluetooth, ZigBee, EDGE, EVDO, LTE, etc. -- and that most fundamental principal is RADIO . From there, I'd ask the question -- how can any device which implements one or more of the wireless protoco…
I don't really know how to read your comment. All the wireless protocol that we use are actually "raw" radio whatever that means. You can use them to do P2P communication if you want to as demonstrated by this protocol.
The way you physically transport data can be safely decoupled from how you will encode and how you want your protocol to work. It makes thinking about the different layers easier and allow them to evolve independantly. Nothing prevents you from building an IP network using ham radio as a transport. The OSI model wasn't developed as a purely theorical concept. It does solve a practical problem.
Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd love someone with knowledge-experience with radio to chime into the feasibility of such a system, what the constraints and potential legality of it could be. I'd imagine a mesh network like this could be most useful during natural disasters that disable wired/powered communications, maybe for wartime anti-tyranny - however radio waves could be blocked/tracked and targeted afaik, so maybe not foolproof for that us…
I’ve been playing with Meshtastic and some ESP32s recently. Works like a charm, but no security other than “channels” and currently no iOS app. The Python API has a ton of features, and it seems like this could tie in nicely.
Ummm, I've not touched any of my Meshtastic devices for a few months, but I'm _reasonably_ certain everything other than the "default" channel is encrypted.
First ht on Google seems to agree: https://www.meshtastic.org/software/crypto.html
Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access
#79A fascinating idea, I wish you a lot of luck in this endeavor! If I were going to go this route, that is, to engineer a network not dependent on the Internet -- I'd first go down to the most fundamental principle of WiFi, Bluetooth, ZigBee, EDGE, EVDO, LTE, etc. -- and that most fundamental principal is RADIO . From there, I'd ask the question -- how can any device which implements one or more of the wireless protoco…
I'd love someone with knowledge-experience with radio to chime into the feasibility of such a system, what the constraints and potential legality of it could be. I'd imagine a mesh network like this could be most useful during natural disasters that disable wired/powered communications, maybe for wartime anti-tyranny - however radio waves could be blocked/tracked and targeted afaik, so maybe not foolproof for that us…
There's a few groups working on this in various forms.
Two ones I've been paying close attention to are; https://www.meshtastic.org/ http://disaster.radio/
Legality-wise can get complicated, there's only certain frequencies you're legally allowed to run encryption on, and then there's wrinkles around hardware and transmission power.
Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access
#80A fascinating idea, I wish you a lot of luck in this endeavor! If I were going to go this route, that is, to engineer a network not dependent on the Internet -- I'd first go down to the most fundamental principle of WiFi, Bluetooth, ZigBee, EDGE, EVDO, LTE, etc. -- and that most fundamental principal is RADIO . From there, I'd ask the question -- how can any device which implements one or more of the wireless protoco…
"if someone were to make the simplest of all SDR's that could turn ordinary WiFi cards and devices into SDR"
I dont think you said what you think you said.