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U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

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Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#151

Post by AWildC182 »

edmundsauto wrote: post #139
syops wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I contend that the real tragedy of American politics is that what ought to be class/labor issues gets sidetracked into race issues. If poor whites would stop thinking in terms of race and instead think in terms of class and economic justice then real progress could be made. Lyndon Johnson had a famous quote about just this. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh...

Genuine question: how can poor whites join with POC, given how the systemic racial injustice narrative has developed? I would be worried about a “this protest isn’t about your situation, white person” response. (Given the current tenor)

Really you just have to frame it as such. There is a distinction here, race issues tend to deal with the interface between citizens and the government (police among other things) where class issues tend to deal with the interface between corporations and the government.

This is a gross oversimplification, but I think the takeaway is it's ok to have spaces for both discussions.

I'd also add that both discussions are happening concurrently. The race issue is big right now, but economic justice is still a central topic. Occupy was a good example even if not a well organized one.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#152

Post by handmodel »

cle wrote: post #46
pradn wrote: post #26

The poverty rate is an awful metric. It simply counts the number of people who earn below a certain income. So people dipping $1 below the line are counted the same as those dipping $10,000 below the line. So, poverty-rate alleviation measures can be implemented simply by focusing on the top end of those under the limit - of course, this doesn't help much. What we should really worry about is the poverty gap - the am…

I don’t know how this is typically measured (or measured in this specific case because I can’t find the actual paper), but do economists generally apply the same dollar threshold to everyone across the country, or do they account for regional cost of living?

I don't think the arbitrary nature is as big of a deal as the first user suggests. If policy makers were truly optimizing for poverty rate reduction of that single metric than Goodhart's law would come into play - but they don't really do that. Other people use other thresholds and I've never seen any evidence that people just below the poverty line getting help is responsible for the shift.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#153

Post by aspaceman »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #125

It's been really incredible to watch the "shut it down!" crowd work comfortably from home while watching their 401k rise while the rest of America suffers. Meanwhile small businesses (which employ a disproportionate amount of minorities) basically get rolled into the trash. California effectively mandated they go out of business. The icing on the cake is seeing politician after politician get caught breaking their ow…

What is the alternative to shutting it down when a large majority of your population is idiots who don't believe the virus is real?

Seriously. What else do you do?

You should have given much larger stimulus checks and fund small businesses to help them stay open. Doesn't require leaving the restaurant open so Joe Six Pack can continue going to McDonalds every day like a moron.

The political wedging on this issue is gross and annoying.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#154

Post by [deleted] »

machiaweliczny wrote: post #78
unpolloloco wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want those jobs, but you don't want people to make careers out of those jobs. Someone in high school should be working those jobs, someone supporting a family or trying to build a career shouldn't be! Not sure how to solve this issue though... Age-based minimum wage? Something else?

Isn't this basically discrimination? Job is job. Even if you are 13 years old your should be paid the same for similar results. Instead of subsiding via parents. This make it better for those unlucky youth to help themselves.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#156

Post by zarkov99 »

syops wrote: post #131
hintymad wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

I contend that the real tragedy of American politics is that what ought to be class/labor issues gets sidetracked into race issues. If poor whites would stop thinking in terms of race and instead think in terms of class and economic justice then real progress could be made. Lyndon Johnson had a famous quote about just this. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh...

Why would you think poor whites are to blame? If anything they are getting even more shafted than minorities: there is 0 sympathy if not outright hatred for poor whites, males in particular. Witness the opioid holocaust.

I would instead blame all the elites that profit from the unfortunate but very real and universal human tendency towards racial prejudice. It is the oldest trick in the book, you identify some sub-group, preferably through something obvious like race, and you blame another groups woes on them. Politicians play that game, the news media plays that game and social networks accidentally machine learn it. It is all obvious and disgusting and treasonous.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#157

Post by newfriend »

syops wrote: post #131
hintymad wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

I contend that the real tragedy of American politics is that what ought to be class/labor issues gets sidetracked into race issues. If poor whites would stop thinking in terms of race and instead think in terms of class and economic justice then real progress could be made. Lyndon Johnson had a famous quote about just this. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh...

> "if only those poor whites would vote for my party, everything would be good"

Or maybe they just have different values than you want them to, and they aren't voting in terms of race?

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#158

Post by cactuspatch »

syops wrote: post #131
hintymad wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

I contend that the real tragedy of American politics is that what ought to be class/labor issues gets sidetracked into race issues. If poor whites would stop thinking in terms of race and instead think in terms of class and economic justice then real progress could be made. Lyndon Johnson had a famous quote about just this. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh...

Huh? This is completely backwards.

Poor whites DO focus on economic issues. That's why Trump was able to promise bringing back manufacturing & coal jobs to win over a large segment of voters.

The problem is that all of the Democrat/liberal/left-wing (whichever label you prefer when discussing the core American political divide) completely denies the existence of poor whites and explicitly rejects helping them. For the past 50 years all of the focus on social justice and structural inequalities have been focused exclusively on the urban poor, racial or sexual minorities, etc.

If you're a poor white kid from a trailer park in West Virginia, you might face all the expected problems - poor education, widespread substance abuse, lack of role models, lack of resources... but there's no college scholarships for you, nobody trying to admit you to their university, nobody trying to hire you or promote you.

I spent 2 years as a social worker in West Virginia. The poor whites I worked with weren't racists and weren't stupid. They were just born into poverty and a system which pretends all whites are privileged oppressors.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#159

Post by pietrovismara »

inglor_cz wrote: post #147
hrjfkgkgk wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk man poverty in the us is not as bad as in india but it sure is worse than east europe. there is a dude here stating inequality is not bad, perhaps they’d want to visit communist countries to see how wide the gap is between regular folks and the elite

Have you ever visited a gypsy village in eastern Slovakia or in the Balkans? You know, the huts that barely stand? Or some of the most notorious housing projects? That is a trip straight to the Middle Ages. Look at the following videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ7WHKU_UoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Men6iwpLjno Eastern Europe has some really bad places. IDK if USA is worse, but it would have to try.

Those are gypsy and you can find the same exact type of camps/villages in Western Europe, no need to go to Eastern Europe.

Their condition doesn't really depend on the poverty level of the country they live in, but other factors such as cultural and integration issues, not always caused by them.

In short, not a really good example of poverty.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#160

Post by db579 »

d1zzy wrote: post #137
dragonwriter wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know why we always go back to income inequality Because it's pretty well established that outside of the most abject poverty, relative deprivation is a more significant factor driving experienced disutility than absolute material condition, contrary to the naive assumptions many people make that increasing individual absolute material condition increases individual utility independent of external context. T…

That reads as an argument but my lack of English skills makes it hard to understand what exactly are you saying. However, it does seem to me that that you still haven't addressed one of the main points you're responding to, that we can have perfect equality where everyone lives as the average person below poverty line today. Would that be a better society considering your arguments?

Arguably yes. I'm not saying it's necessarily the world I would want to live in but I suspect the world's aggregate perceived level of happiness may be higher.
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