Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents • Hacker News Board

Re: Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents

#281

Post by gonehome » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

nyanpasu64 wrote: post #122

kibwen wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than alluding to vague upsides, can you list what upsides you want to assert that social media provides, so that we can do as you say and perform a cost/benefit analysis? As both an early adopter and former user of both Facebook and Twitter, my eventual conclusion was that whatever benefits they offered were vastly outweighed by the mental toll they took on me.

To quote @mumblemumble: """ There's another side to this, though. Letting kids roam the internet can give ones who might otherwise be doomed to become misfits an opportunity to find community. Being a queer kid pre-Internet, for example, sucked, and the Web rolling out to households changed a lot of kids' lives. And we have a poor cultural memory of what that experience used to be like, because, before the rise of on…

I grew up in a suburb and pretty isolated intellectual vacuum where it was hard to learn anything.

I got internet access I could use regularly when I was around 12.

Things were less developed then ~2002 and I didn't have FB until 2007 so maybe it's not directly comparable to the modern web, but the information access was amazing.

There was so much available to read and learn and most importantly, it helped with unknown unknowns.

When you're isolated like that and you don't live in a community of people that can introduce you to new things it's really hard to find where to even look on the map of interesting ideas. You don't know what exists. I wouldn't have been able to learn about computers, wouldn't have eventually been able to come out to the bay area as early as I did. I think people don't realize how the internet frees people that don't otherwise have a personal connection to someone who knows things.

My case isn't even that exceptional (my dad is an MD and smart, he was just the first in his family to really succeed so didn't know how to navigate a lot of the social class stuff) - someone who truly grew up in poverty would have even less access to things via their personal network.

At least for me, there is way more good with the web than bad.

The web and internet access may drive most of humanity to tribal motivated reasoning and echo chambers, but for others it leads to better critical thinking, learning new ideas and arguments and changing your mind/becoming a better thinker.

The upside potential is still there and huge - it's easier to learn than ever.

It just didn't fix the fact that the average person is not well suited to take advantage of it.

Re: Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents

#282

Post by ktzar » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

I wrote a novel that takes place in the near future (2035) and the main character is a 18 year old. I predict that using phones will be banned until you come off age and their technology interaction is restricted to smart watches.

Social media is damaging to adults, I wonder why nobody has put a limit by law to younger people.

Re: Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents

#283

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

Heck. It damages adult brains.

I have learned to avoid Facebook, and barely ever look at Twitter.

It has resulted in a drastic improvement in my general mood.

Re: Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents

#284

Post by danenania » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

Bodell wrote: post #221

nyanpasu64 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote @mumblemumble: """ There's another side to this, though. Letting kids roam the internet can give ones who might otherwise be doomed to become misfits an opportunity to find community. Being a queer kid pre-Internet, for example, sucked, and the Web rolling out to households changed a lot of kids' lives. And we have a poor cultural memory of what that experience used to be like, because, before the rise of on…

This is all personal anecdotal, and not intended to be a real argument either way. I have and have had internet in my house since I was 5-10. And I'd have to say: I'm still a misfit, social pariah, currently with no friends. Ironically the most respect (I mean this in the most basic sense of respect) I get from other humans is on here. But things were better when I was younger and worse now that I am 31. I'm not misr…

"Even when I call my mother she can't put down her Facebook or emails for a few minutes to talk."

Anecdotally, it seems like the older generations are some of the worst offenders when it comes to this stuff. The stereotype is of two millennials sitting at a restaurant and both spending the entire meal staring at their phones. While that does happen, I think it's actually a lot more common now for older people to behave like this, maybe because they've had less time to develop any form of social or psychological resistance.

I think we need an evolution of social etiquette to account for this brave new world of self-absorption and rudeness. Pulling out your phone while in the middle of a conversation is incredibly rude, but people do it constantly, without a second thought, in both personal and professional contexts. It should be acceptable to kindly but firmly shame people for this kind of anti-social behavior, just like we'd shame people (perhaps not so kindly) if they started spitting in everyone's drinks or being blatantly cruel to others. I'm not trying to claim moral superiority, as I'm as guilty as anyone of doing it on occasion, but I'd honestly be happy if the person I'm with would say "put that thing away and pay attention to what I'm saying you dick!".

Re: Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents

#285

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #89

titzer wrote: post #24

Social media (and the attention economy) are worse for young brains than drugs. If you came up with a substance that caused young people by the millions to become totally addicted, cost them multiple hours per day, pushed them into depression and suicide, and contributed to inactivity, obesity, loss of attention span, and overall ennui, it would be banned almost immediately. Heck, if you proposed a tracking system th…

It's called "parenting" which is not in vogue right now. Currently, people treat children like adults, expecting them to navigate the world as an adult would, and that's dumb. Reject a failed society. It's okay to be an individual, you don't need to be part of the collective.

[deleted]

Re: Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents

#286

Post by defterGoose » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #35

ChrisRR wrote: post #8

Social media damages everyone's mental health it seems. For some reason it seems to bring out the worst in so many people, and people think it's now acceptable to post online the awful thoughts that they would've kept to themselves

The communities are too big. We're not meant to socialize frequently with people with whom there are rarely repercussions for how we treat them.

"With great power comes great responsibility"

-Uncle Ben

Re: Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents

#287

Post by tqi » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

It is interesting to me the way these research results are spun. A previous study[1] that paid users to quit Facebook found that they were happier, and were less up to date about news and politics. The headlines were all some variation of "quitting facebook will make you happier", as opposed to "keeping up to date on news / politics makes you unhappy".

Similarly, the headline here says "Social media damages teenagers' mental health, report says" while the body of the article notes:

“Those who feel worse may turn to social media for solace or community,” Dr Amy Orben, research fellow at Emmanuel College, University of Cambridge, said of the research.

“It’s not a vacuum, it works both ways."

[1] https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/quitting-facebook-research-...

Re: Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents

#288

Post by devlopr » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #273

stretchcat wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see what real life names have to do with keeping in touch. I've kept in touch with people for 15+ years using IRC nicknames. In a few cases I don't know the other person's real name at all. Sure people can change their nicknames, but people change their real names too. I've gone by three different 'real' names throughout my life. That may not be super common, but people getting married and changing their name…

I mean "here's all the people you went to school with" was literally Facebook's raison d'etre. If I was relying on stored phone numbers or email addresses I'd be a lot less likely to be in touch with some of them (including those whose numbers I still have!) Sure, it's possible to stay in touch with a long list of monikers and sometimes even not much more difficult, but (going back to the OP I responded to) it's poss…

It's a valid point and I have found value in looking up past friends on facebook.

I'm not sure a teenager has the same value. Anyone under 18 shouldn't have real identifying names them.

When facebook came out you had people isolated into networks of schools. Those structures provided better protections and freedom. The transition to fully public with forced real names made facebook into something not for kids but great for older folks.

Re: Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents

#289

Post by skratlo » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

Hendrikto wrote: post #199

kibwen wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than alluding to vague upsides, can you list what upsides you want to assert that social media provides, so that we can do as you say and perform a cost/benefit analysis? As both an early adopter and former user of both Facebook and Twitter, my eventual conclusion was that whatever benefits they offered were vastly outweighed by the mental toll they took on me.

I just finished writing a paper on this. Here are some upsides: Studies have shown that disclosing information about oneself is an intrinsically rewarding experience [0]. Social media offerings provide a platform for sharing information easily with a large audience, which activates reward mechanisms in the brain. People use social media because it makes them feel good, which is probably the reason for their explosive…

> Social media platforms are one of the most accessible forms of long-distance communication

E-mail? Have you heard of it? Signal? Other IM platforms. And you continue on selling social media as means of friendly communication which is not true. There's gazillion alternatives but those were all eaten up by the giants. All those use cases and people that you mentioned used mailing lists before and were doing just fine.

Re: Heavy social media use associated with lower mental health in adolescents

#290

Post by fingerlocks » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

danenania wrote: post #284

Bodell wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all personal anecdotal, and not intended to be a real argument either way. I have and have had internet in my house since I was 5-10. And I'd have to say: I'm still a misfit, social pariah, currently with no friends. Ironically the most respect (I mean this in the most basic sense of respect) I get from other humans is on here. But things were better when I was younger and worse now that I am 31. I'm not misr…

"Even when I call my mother she can't put down her Facebook or emails for a few minutes to talk." Anecdotally, it seems like the older generations are some of the worst offenders when it comes to this stuff. The stereotype is of two millennials sitting at a restaurant and both spending the entire meal staring at their phones. While that does happen, I think it's actually a lot more common now for older people to beha…

Older people stare at their phones when they're in restaurants because they are often with their spouse, and they already spend 100% of their time with each other. Their lives are encumbered with child rearing, house maintenance, and other time-consuming adulthood chores. So when you see them at a restaurant, they're both thinking Thank god we can finally sit down and peacefully stare at our phones in peace.