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U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

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Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#141

Post by monadic3 »

syops wrote: post #131
hintymad wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

I contend that the real tragedy of American politics is that what ought to be class/labor issues gets sidetracked into race issues. If poor whites would stop thinking in terms of race and instead think in terms of class and economic justice then real progress could be made. Lyndon Johnson had a famous quote about just this. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh...

[dead]

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#142

Post by vorpalhex »

d1zzy wrote: post #137
dragonwriter wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know why we always go back to income inequality Because it's pretty well established that outside of the most abject poverty, relative deprivation is a more significant factor driving experienced disutility than absolute material condition, contrary to the naive assumptions many people make that increasing individual absolute material condition increases individual utility independent of external context. T…

That reads as an argument but my lack of English skills makes it hard to understand what exactly are you saying. However, it does seem to me that that you still haven't addressed one of the main points you're responding to, that we can have perfect equality where everyone lives as the average person below poverty line today. Would that be a better society considering your arguments?

I'm a college educated native speaker who reads medical research in my free time and I can't understand what the parent was saying.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#143

Post by newsclues »

macspoofing wrote: post #23
newsclues wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because food and shelter cost nearly 100% of people’s incomes. If the cost of living is equal or greater than your income, saving is impossible.

You're making a lot of assumptions in that statement and spinning a hypothetical story in your head that does not match reality. There are ways to live below your means in America. You may need social assistance if you're in hard times (and that's OK, that's what it's there for), but there is. If you say otherwise, you're just making things up. I said this in another post, but I can guarantee you that even in places…

I think many people with jobs let alone those on social assistance, are below the poverty line, because their incomes do not afford the basic essentials.

I’m in Canada, where I think the social safety net is slightly better than America, and I personally live this existence, it’s not a hypothetical for me that I spend over 50% of my income on a studio apartment.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#144

Post by zaroth »

hintymad wrote: post #123
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #2

Alternative title: "events of 2020 case poverty rate to regress to 2017/2018 levels" Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small considering that the industries hit hardest by covid employ a heck of a lot of people who are near the poverty line to begin with. I would expect all those people to be pushed to the other side of the line resulting in a much more dramatic increase in the poverty rate.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

Well the word 'racism' doesn't appear in TFA that I could see.

However, I think the definition of "systemic racism" has changed to mean the existence of a demographic skew in the bottom and top economic quartiles. In other words, as long as "whites" don't makeup an proportionate percentage of the lowest quartile, and "blacks" don't make up a proportionate percentage of the highest quartile, that is, by definition, systemic racism.

In essence, the term no longer represents a critique on equality, but rather a critique on equity of outcomes.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#145

Post by nickff »

syops wrote: post #131
hintymad wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

I contend that the real tragedy of American politics is that what ought to be class/labor issues gets sidetracked into race issues. If poor whites would stop thinking in terms of race and instead think in terms of class and economic justice then real progress could be made. Lyndon Johnson had a famous quote about just this. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh...

It seems like 'the issues' are being framed in ways that are convenient for the political parties. The Democratic and Republican parties each get about the same support (plus or minus 5%) from various 'classes' (as defined by income or wealth quintiles), but get very different support from different ethnic groups (national origin, and not just race has a big impact).

That said, I think your class-based paradigm is just as badly flawed.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#146

Post by eloff »

lumost wrote: post #103
eloff wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a very small ruling class exploiting pretty much the entire population. That's very low levels of inequality.

Typically that would be viewed as high inequality. If the ruling class of .1% controls 99.9% of the wealth then the "average wealth" and the "median wealth" will be extremely different aka wealth inequality.

That would be high inequality, yes.

However, if the ruling class of 0.1% has 10% of the overall wealth, then that would be very low inequality. I would expect that to have been closer to the truth under the old USSR or the old Cuba, see the graph at: https://voxeu.org/sites/default/files/image/FromMay2014/novo... taken from: https://voxeu.org/article/inequality-and-property-russia-190...

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#147

Post by inglor_cz »

hrjfkgkgk wrote: post #81
pietrovismara wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Some people seem to refer to poverty as living with the standards of 2000 years ago. Of course we improved. That doesn't mean that relative poverty is getting worse and that other factors like free time have worsened if compared with centuries ago.

idk man poverty in the us is not as bad as in india but it sure is worse than east europe. there is a dude here stating inequality is not bad, perhaps they’d want to visit communist countries to see how wide the gap is between regular folks and the elite

Have you ever visited a gypsy village in eastern Slovakia or in the Balkans? You know, the huts that barely stand? Or some of the most notorious housing projects?

That is a trip straight to the Middle Ages. Look at the following videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ7WHKU_UoY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Men6iwpLjno

Eastern Europe has some really bad places. IDK if USA is worse, but it would have to try.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#148

Post by lordloki »

hintymad wrote: post #123
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #2

Alternative title: "events of 2020 case poverty rate to regress to 2017/2018 levels" Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small considering that the industries hit hardest by covid employ a heck of a lot of people who are near the poverty line to begin with. I would expect all those people to be pushed to the other side of the line resulting in a much more dramatic increase in the poverty rate.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

You'll notice that the rise in media reporting on systematic racism correlates strongly with the rise in discussions about class difference, industry trends, globalization, etc. The latter was Bernie Sander's platform before he was "challenged" by BLM during the 2016 primary. Not to imply that Sanders didn't previously support BLM, but he rhetoric changed after that. It was clear to me that Sanders thought the primary issue was class and that by addressing that we would improve everyone's life who was affected by the economic troubles due to the issues you mention. It's almost as if someone has something to gain by splitting us apart rather than letting everyone focus on their common issues.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#149

Post by Consultant32452 »

hintymad wrote: post #123
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #2

Alternative title: "events of 2020 case poverty rate to regress to 2017/2018 levels" Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small considering that the industries hit hardest by covid employ a heck of a lot of people who are near the poverty line to begin with. I would expect all those people to be pushed to the other side of the line resulting in a much more dramatic increase in the poverty rate.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

The people will not be allowed to think about those things. The cathedral doesn't want people to start thinking about occupying Wall Street again, so they will keep everyone distracted with these other things. It's no surprise that every major corporation is loudly pushing woke topics.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#150

Post by throwaway0a5e »

syops wrote: post #131
hintymad wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

I contend that the real tragedy of American politics is that what ought to be class/labor issues gets sidetracked into race issues. If poor whites would stop thinking in terms of race and instead think in terms of class and economic justice then real progress could be made. Lyndon Johnson had a famous quote about just this. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh...

I think the race problems lie with people rich enough to have the spare shits to give.
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