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IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

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Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#511

Post by samkater »

notatoad wrote: post #466
nom wrote: post #256

I never understood why people hate IKEA. Yes it's cheap. Yes it doesn't last a lifetime. Yes it needs a lot of wood. Yes it's highly optimized. But guess what, IKEA is a business responding to the needs of people. The negatives that are mentioned frequently are merely a symptom of our ever faster developing society. The people who complain are the same ones that just buy cheap crap from china without even thinking ab…

It's not Ikea that people hate, it's Ikea customers. People like to think of the moment they upgrades from Ikea furniture to something else as a life milestone where they ascend to another social class, and once they have done that they get to look down on the classes that buy Ikea furniture. Sure, there's a whole list of supposed justifications, but most people's "upgrade" furniture is the same mass-produced crap, b…

I previously would have dismissed this sort of comment with the thought "surely they are missing something." But recently we were looking for simple cabinets and found some we liked on Wayfair but just seemed expensive to me. On a whim I checked Target and found the exact same thing - same model number, even the same marketing pictures for about 33% less. The only difference, as you say, was the snobbery in the description.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#513

Post by RHSeeger »

nom wrote: post #256

I never understood why people hate IKEA. Yes it's cheap. Yes it doesn't last a lifetime. Yes it needs a lot of wood. Yes it's highly optimized. But guess what, IKEA is a business responding to the needs of people. The negatives that are mentioned frequently are merely a symptom of our ever faster developing society. The people who complain are the same ones that just buy cheap crap from china without even thinking ab…

Maybe it's because of those people that got trapped in the IKEA forever.... http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-3008

^ It's fiction. I just thought people here are the kind that would enjoy it.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#514

Post by jacobrobbins »

ashtonkem wrote: post #400
philjohn wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on what you buy there. I fitted two IKEA kitchens to past homes I lived in, 14 and 17 years ago. Not professionally fitted either, I did the hard work. I found the properties had both recently been sold and had a look at the listings - both of the kitchens were still doing great. The kitchen I fitted had solid oak door frames with a veneered panel, Quaker style if you will, with standard chipboard cabi…

IKEA cabinets are usually considered one of the best things they make. Plastic layered MDF works really well for cabinetry for whatever reason. Even most woodworkers seem to actually recommend Ikea cabinets, even if they despise the rest of their products.

wood expansion is a big factor for wide flat pieces. Non directional wood products like MDF are used in cabinetry because they do not expand to anywhere near the same degree as solid wood. If you want to use solid wood you have to float it in panels, like you sometimes see on doors. But that adds a lot of complexity. For cabinets where you have dozens of moving pieces using MDF (or plywood) is much better for the reliability of the moving parts.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#515

Post by namdnay »

BurningFrog wrote: post #412
dfxm12 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they use the same amount of wood though? There's more to "consumption" than money!

Wood is a renewable resource. I don't see how using it is bad.

Wood is fine. Shipping it thousands of miles is not

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#516

Post by headsupftw »

nom wrote: post #256

I never understood why people hate IKEA. Yes it's cheap. Yes it doesn't last a lifetime. Yes it needs a lot of wood. Yes it's highly optimized. But guess what, IKEA is a business responding to the needs of people. The negatives that are mentioned frequently are merely a symptom of our ever faster developing society. The people who complain are the same ones that just buy cheap crap from china without even thinking ab…

Wait a sec. When the products are sold by IKEA, they are cheap but they are "products that people actually need". But when they are from China, they are "cheap crap from china"?

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#517

Post by megablast »

nom wrote: post #256

I never understood why people hate IKEA. Yes it's cheap. Yes it doesn't last a lifetime. Yes it needs a lot of wood. Yes it's highly optimized. But guess what, IKEA is a business responding to the needs of people. The negatives that are mentioned frequently are merely a symptom of our ever faster developing society. The people who complain are the same ones that just buy cheap crap from china without even thinking ab…

The world biggest charging ikea?? How can anyone hate them. Unless they just do it for tax purposes.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#518

Post by megablast »

tshaddox wrote: post #430
nom wrote: post #256

I never understood why people hate IKEA. Yes it's cheap. Yes it doesn't last a lifetime. Yes it needs a lot of wood. Yes it's highly optimized. But guess what, IKEA is a business responding to the needs of people. The negatives that are mentioned frequently are merely a symptom of our ever faster developing society. The people who complain are the same ones that just buy cheap crap from china without even thinking ab…

Also, the furniture market is just insane. If you want a chest of drawers, you either pay $100 for a cheap flat pack self-assembled one from IKEA and take it home today, or similar prices for a similar one online from Wayfair.com (a bit more of a gamble), or you pay over $1000 for something that won’t show up for 6 months. It’s bizarre that you can buy a brand new car with cash and take it home today, but the supply…

Or you get a good one second hand for $50?

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#519

Post by yreg »

opencl wrote: post #379
sneak wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how "complies precisely with the tax law as it exists" is a point against anyone. Surely if you believe the state is entitled to levy taxes, then you wish for people to obey the laws they put in place dictating them, do you not? This idea "people should be paying what we want , not what we specifically legislated " is insane to me. If people aren't to comply with the law as written, what should they be d…

There's been an ongoing investigation of IKEA by the EU Commission for the past several years because they believe IKEA is not complying precisely with the tax law as it exists. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-ikea-ab-taxavoidance-e... https://www.tax-news.com/news/EU_Expands_Investigation_Into_...

Were they convicted of any wrongdoing?

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#520

Post by ashtonkem »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #415
ashtonkem wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IKEA also has a will to abuse them to a degree that their peers don’t, and we should judge them as less ethical for it.

Which degree should we start judging at? When people deduct taxes for donations to universities to increase the odds of their child being accepted? When people deduct taxes for charity to their church/temple/organization/other tribe in order to direct resources in a way that might benefit them more directly versus the nation as a whole? It's either legal or it's not. If you want the "abuse" to stop, then elect the le…

You seem to be making the argument that if it’s legal, it’s not immoral. I reject this argument completely. By necessity the law does not (and cannot) cover every single aspect of human behavior. Just because what IKEA is doing is legal does not make it right. Nor is it inappropriate for a private citizen to condemn behavior they disapprove of, whether or not it’s legal.

As far as where the ethical line is, that is a very complicated subject not conducive to generic discussion. But I am extremely certain that “we configured our multi-billion dollar international furniture business as a non-profit” is certainly well on the wrong side of the line. We can discuss other scenarios in their appropriate context, but the existence of other grey areas does not excuse the unethical behavior of IKEA here.

I do wish legislators would get their together and fix the tax code so that IKEA will pay their fair share, but condemning them for their behavior is a necessary prerequisite to that change actually happening. One can’t chastise other citizens for complaining about unethical behavior and suggest that instead someone else should change the law, that makes literally no sense. I have no direct capability to change the law, and it’s incoherent of you to tell me to stop complaining about it until the law is changed.

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