Split keyboards and how to build them • Hacker News Board

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#241

Post by krysp » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #98

dehrmann wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they might be a career saver. Seriously. I'll also plug vertical mice. They look goofy, but it's a better wrist position.

I picked a trackball with scroll wheel, which I'll briefly pitch: - It's always in the same place, so reaching the mouse is completely muscle memory - I can put it as close as possible to my keyboard - No elbow motion except to get from keyboard to trackball - Scrolling is a bit more than half of my 'mousing' and is easy, just spin a large wheel clockwise I got one with two buttons, my only regret; Kensington makes o…

If it makes you feel any better, I have the Kensington with four buttons. I never use the extra two for anything - probably because, like most people in the comments, I'm trying to stay away from the mouse. Two buttons is plenty!

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#242

Post by rpiguyshy » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:05 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #238

rpiguyshy wrote: post #228

why is there no "typing glove?" some kind of device that is attached to your hand that tracks the minute movement of your fingers, and translates them into keystrokes? the amount of physical movement for each keystroke would be dramatically reduced and so it would be faster as well. even without going this far, wouldnt it be much faster to have a keyboard where there is only one button for each finger, and combinatio…

The closest is probably the Lalboard: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard

this is almost exactly what i was talking about! but this seems like it uses a ring of buttons around each finger. it uses more than one discreet button per finger rather than one button per finger plus using combinations of key-presses. and i think the design is flawed ergonomically because your fingers press downward instead of inward. an ideal version of this keyboard would be a ring about the size of your palm with keys around its edge, and to use it you mate your palm with the surface of the ring and pull on each key to depress it kind of like the way you pull the trigger of a gun. has nobody really made that yet?

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#243

Post by neuronexmachina » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

fpgaminer wrote: post #107

neuronexmachina wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the chair I ended up buying was like $500, delivered, with all the upgrades, because it was remanufactured Did you order your remanufactured chair from Crandall or BOTD? I just ordered a remanufactured Steelcase Leap V2 yesterday, looking forward to its arrival!

Yup, Crandall. Took awhile to ship, but otherwise went smoothly. Looks and feels good as new. Word of advice: don't assemble it on carpet unless you want black grease stains...

Thanks for the tip! I'll lay out a sheet before assembly.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#244

Post by 1996 » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

Syzygies wrote: post #231

ashkankiani wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you switch to the moonlander from the Kinesis? The curved design of the kinesis is way better for reducing strain than the flat style of the moonlander/ergodox. If the only factor is programmability, then I think that factor may be overexaggerated in how important it is. Know that anyone who wants to riposte that last point should realize that I'm not a novice to making my own keyboards or programming them.…

I gave up on three Kinesis Advantage keyboards in 2006, after they all started dropping key-up events on modifier keys. I then took one apart. Primitive, dated USB hardware, and nothing about the company read that they were eager to modernize. (The ergo keyboard market abounds with never-updated designs.) Has there been a generational improvement in their circuit quality?

I would also be weary. They had similar fanposts before.

Unless there is evidence that the quality did improve, I'll wait.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#245

Post by philsnow » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 8:02 PM UTC

Syzygies wrote: post #231

ashkankiani wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you switch to the moonlander from the Kinesis? The curved design of the kinesis is way better for reducing strain than the flat style of the moonlander/ergodox. If the only factor is programmability, then I think that factor may be overexaggerated in how important it is. Know that anyone who wants to riposte that last point should realize that I'm not a novice to making my own keyboards or programming them.…

I gave up on three Kinesis Advantage keyboards in 2006, after they all started dropping key-up events on modifier keys. I then took one apart. Primitive, dated USB hardware, and nothing about the company read that they were eager to modernize. (The ergo keyboard market abounds with never-updated designs.) Has there been a generational improvement in their circuit quality?

Is that what's happening? My kinesis advantage (plugged into a Mac) sometimes gets stuck modifier keys and only unplugging it and plugging it back in fixes it. Seems worse than just dropping some keyup events, because it doesn't get unstuck if I hit the modifier key again.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#246

Post by __mharrison__ » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

snapplefish wrote: post #160

__mharrison__ wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add a long time thinkpad user and someone who has a mech keyboard (unicomp) with a trackpoint, I thought these would be common place... Still waiting for a trackpoint but I have a nice big CST trackball between my split keyboard until then...

Trackpoint modules are harvestable from Thinkpad keyboards, and are well-supported in QMK (the most prolific keyboard firmware). I've used them a lot on custom splits, and they work quite well.

Do you have any links?

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#247

Post by soenkeliebau » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

flurdy wrote: post #235

soenkeliebau wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've looked at a few Moonlander setups for the keyboard layout that I use on their site [1][2][3] and to my mind the right half is simply missing one column of keys to get a proper cursor key block. Even the lying-L option ─┘ would mean missing the right shift key (which of course should probably be on the thumb block) and getting used to something different. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but for me being from Ger…

No, you can have a normal ⊥ arrows layout on the right half [1]. I do as I use those keys a lot. Or I can use a navigation layer as others have mentioned. The magic is the double use of modifiers if tapped or held. Whilst I personally could see a need for another column if you have a Nordic layout like mine, but that would make it not symmetrical and unnecessary for English layouts. [1] https://configure.ergodox-ez.c…

For a querty or qwerz layout that would indeed work, if you moved one symbol key (- for german layout, ? for american). However in my keyboard loayout there actually is a letter in that place (j) [1]. And while I'm willing to compromise on modifiers, page up/down and the like, I draw a line at the stuff that I spent a lot of effort on learning to touch-type :)

As for using a navigation layer - perfectly happy with that 90% of the time, I already use that today, but for some things I just prefer actual cursor keys. For example selecting an entire word in an editor, you press shift to select, ctrl to jump a whole word and cursor for the direction to jump in. If you add a modifier to that, you start breaking fingers ..

[1] https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/moonlander/layouts/60ynN/la...

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#248

Post by lycopodiopsida » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 10:20 PM UTC

kiesel wrote: post #180

Having a good keyboard is important (not only for ergonomics, but also for efficiency) in our business. But I find I'm having difficulty when temporarily switching from US to DE keyboard layout, or when using a mac (vs linux) - so what would using a completely custom keyboard do to my general computer user ability? This is why I never considered buying one of these...

At least on the mac I do not use the german layout at all. For typing an Umlaut I type instead Opt(Alt) + 'u' to get an ¨-sign, then I type a/o/u to get the letter. The same with ß - just Opt + 's'.

It is maybe a bit annyoing if I have to type in german a lot on some days, but it is less annoying then to keep an extra layout. And since I sometimes have to type in french and often in russian... well, you get the idea, it would be a mess of 4 keyboard layouts. With special characters I can push the amount of keyboard layouts just to colemak and russian.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#249

Post by Merad » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

mech422 wrote: post #61

Merad wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ultimate Hacking Keyboard supports a trackball or trackpad attached to the right half. The expansion modules just recently became available though so it may be hard to find reviews or people with hands on experience.

They finally released the trackball module? Cool... I'll have to look for some reviews - I'm concerned the actual trackball looks a bit small? Edit: are you sure they started shipping? the shop page still says under development?

I could have sworn I got an update that they had started shipping them but their site says the ETA is the end of this month.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#250

Post by knacky » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 11:36 PM UTC

vjaswal wrote: post #115

No ones mentioned the Dygma Raise, yet. I HIGHLY recommend them. It has a great solid metal build that doesn't flex. It's very compact. And it has hot-swappable switches which are very easy to replace. That was critical. I put in Zilents v2 67g switches and it feels great; very tactile and buttery smooth. I tried speed switches and Cherry browns too, but the zilents were the best for coding. It's marketed as a gaming…

I will second the Dygma Raise. It's a great split keyboard with a staggered layout and eight thumb modifiers (rather than a single spacebar). This was great for me since I didn't want to take on the learning curve of a ortholinear layout.