U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#121

Post by peter_d_sherman » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

37ef_ced3 wrote: post #27

commandlinefan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you mean "stocks"?

A stonk is a stock that moves with no regard to the intrinsic value of the underlying business The government's monetary policy, along with widespread retail call option trading, have turned certain "hot" parts of the stock market into stonks, prices rising parabolically or exponentially, making gamblers very rich Behold: https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/ Low interest rates have recently produced extreme asset…

Example: Gamestop (GME)...

Or "Gamestonk" -- as Elon Musk so eloquently tweeted...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1354174279894642703

https://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?...

"A rising tide (of monetary policy) lifts all boats, er, stocks, er, stonks..."

-Bible, New King James Version, Revelation 6:6

https://biblehub.com/revelation/6-6.htm

https://www.bibleref.com/Revelation/6/Revelation-6-6.html

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#122

Post by ultrarunner » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

anotherman554 wrote: post #96

mjevans wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offhand, just from my own crummy bio memory of prices of things... I'd estimate about a 50% increase in food prices in about the last decade. I'd also estimate that the asking price of a house was completely out of whack even post the recession in 2008; it _never_ corrected in any of the west coast areas I live in. Still even that price has continued to go up due to inelastic supply and ever growing demand.

The government CPI statistics show 18.7% price increase between 2010 and 2020. It's certainly possible that your expenses went up 50% in your presumably super-affluent area of the U.S. It wouldn't surprise me if booming tech companies in certain regions have caused this- but it is not the effect of monetary policy or government minimum wage policy- and my expenses have not gone up much in the last 10 years in my weal…

Do government CPI statistics account for "the grocery shrink ray" wherein prices remain fixed but quantities decrease?

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#123

Post by hintymad » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #2

Alternative title: "events of 2020 case poverty rate to regress to 2017/2018 levels" Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small considering that the industries hit hardest by covid employ a heck of a lot of people who are near the poverty line to begin with. I would expect all those people to be pushed to the other side of the line resulting in a much more dramatic increase in the poverty rate.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#124

Post by krupan » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #50

WC3w6pXxgGd wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual Econ 101 would be understanding how setting a price floor on peoples' ability to sell their labor (aka a "minimum wage") is destructive and immoral.

You're fair to argue that it's immoral; I'm agnostic on the idea. Though I'm not sure that Economics has much to say about it. As for whether it's destructive, I used to strongly believe so. Now I believe that, as long as there is unemployment in the system (and my understanding is economics tells us that there will ALWAYS be unemployment), the lack of an adequate wage floor will always result in a race to the bottom…

“and my understanding is economics tells us that there will ALWAYS be unemployment”

Will there? In my state just a couple years ago traditional minimum wage jobs could not be filled. State minimum wage was around $7 an hour and every fast food restaurant and grocery store had big signs out front offering $11 or $12 an hour.

In general, it would seem that if everyone was free to offer work at any price, and everyone was free to accept work at any price, yes, some very low value jobs would race to the bottom, but those would be jobs that don’t even exist right now due to minimum wage laws. Many more people would be able to get at least some job, and in many cases wages would naturally go up without the need of government coercion.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#125

Post by ed25519FUUU » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

It's been really incredible to watch the "shut it down!" crowd work comfortably from home while watching their 401k rise while the rest of America suffers. Meanwhile small businesses (which employ a disproportionate amount of minorities) basically get rolled into the trash. California effectively mandated they go out of business.

The icing on the cake is seeing politician after politician get caught breaking their own rules. Nancy Pelosi visits a nail salon while the state ordered every other nail salon out of business. It's sick and it's dumb and a large portion of the country couldn't care less.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#126

Post by krupan » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

machiaweliczny wrote: post #44

WC3w6pXxgGd wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual Econ 101 would be understanding how setting a price floor on peoples' ability to sell their labor (aka a "minimum wage") is destructive and immoral.

Actually understanding current laws, game theory and money supply make minimum wage preferable.

“Current laws” is kinda what we are arguing against

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#127

Post by bserge » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

eloff wrote: post #84

hrjfkgkgk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That was a very small ruling class exploiting pretty much the entire population. That's very low levels of inequality.

That's high inequality, isn't it?

Also I always laugh at how the CPSU was supposed to bring true communism but instead just kept the power indefinitely.

"After all, why not? Why shouldn't I keep it?" heh

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#128

Post by krupan » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

machiaweliczny wrote: post #22

macspoofing wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's what OP is saying and if that's the case, they are wrong. Minimum wage is not inflationary. It has other problems like the fact it never ever decreases poverty, and has a good chance of increasing unemployment, and is a one-size-fits all ($15/hr in NY, is different than $15/hr in Alabama) ... but it isn't inflationary. You're not creating new money.

Minimum wage just forces some ppl to do more productive stuff. It will take away some jobs but you probably dont want such jobs in developed country. It's just better to allow more part-time work IMO. I would like some opinion of Dutch ppl on their part time work law, which seems interesting to me.

My local school district employs 14-year olds to vacuum the floor after school each day. You really think that has no value for anyone involved? I know one of the kids and they are sad that they will lose that job if Biden’s minimum wage is passed.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#129

Post by sudosysgen » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

api wrote: post #10

macspoofing wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Even under communism when nobody really had money, my grandmother would diligently squirrely as much as she could. My dad did as well, in order to save up for his eventual emigration. There are ways to live below your means under even extreme situations.

Very very few Americans do this. They should, but they don't. Everything in the culture encourages people to spend.

While that's true, if you attempted to generally reduce propensity to spend in the US economy you would see very, very bad economic effects.

It's the paradox of thrift.

To note, it has been economic policy to not have Americans save up.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#130

Post by krupan » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

machiaweliczny wrote: post #78

unpolloloco wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want those jobs, but you don't want people to make careers out of those jobs. Someone in high school should be working those jobs, someone supporting a family or trying to build a career shouldn't be! Not sure how to solve this issue though... Age-based minimum wage? Something else?

Isn't this basically discrimination? Job is job. Even if you are 13 years old your should be paid the same for similar results. Instead of subsiding via parents. This make it better for those unlucky youth to help themselves.

Wait, parents shouldn’t subsidize their kids?! As soon as my kid can get a part-time job as a teenager I should totally cut them off? That does sound tempting...