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IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

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Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#451

Post by vidoc »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #402
vidoc wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never understood why people hate IKEA Besides not providing the most durable furniture, albeit at the most competitive price and reasonably good looking designs, they've had a few PR disasters over the years like this one :p https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/02/25/172869585/ho...

Pretty much everyone in Europe was caught up in the horse meat scandal. I suspect that IKEA was not the one at fault here. The horse meat was inserted into the supply chain right at the slaughtering stage.

> I suspect that IKEA was not the one at fault here

That's right, if I recall correctly, for some reason the press really obsessed about IKEA and another steakhouse chain whose name I forgot.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#452

Post by [deleted] »

altacc wrote: post #376
alexggordon wrote: post #369

Not disparaging IKEA at all--moves like this should be lauded--but this is a working forest, harvested for lumber. I can't speak to how sustainably it's harvested or anything, and while this is commendable, there is profit motive here, as IKEA is heavily dependent on wood for its products. I think in general, supporting things like working forests from a government level (tax benefits) is probably something that isn'…

It's a good point to raise, as a working forest is quite different to a protected forest. Where I live is surrounded by working forest and regularly a large swathe will be felled, having a big impact on wildlife and taking at least a couple of decades for that land to recover. That's good for carbon sequestration, which is what Ikea wants it for, but not so good for the forest residents.

[deleted]

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#453

Post by jkestner »

tshaddox wrote: post #430
nom wrote: post #256

I never understood why people hate IKEA. Yes it's cheap. Yes it doesn't last a lifetime. Yes it needs a lot of wood. Yes it's highly optimized. But guess what, IKEA is a business responding to the needs of people. The negatives that are mentioned frequently are merely a symptom of our ever faster developing society. The people who complain are the same ones that just buy cheap crap from china without even thinking ab…

Also, the furniture market is just insane. If you want a chest of drawers, you either pay $100 for a cheap flat pack self-assembled one from IKEA and take it home today, or similar prices for a similar one online from Wayfair.com (a bit more of a gamble), or you pay over $1000 for something that won’t show up for 6 months. It’s bizarre that you can buy a brand new car with cash and take it home today, but the supply…

If you're comparing it to cars, you can buy furniture with cash today from retail home stores. Online you can get something from Ashley or West Elm for around $500 within a few weeks, or online stores like Article or Joybird will hit that $1000 and ship quicker. Of course, a $100 dresser is not the same product as a $1000 dresser, which Ikea will also sell you.

I wouldn't say it's insane—shipping big things individually is expensive. Ikea is the crazy one, and they've certainly innovated to make furniture cheap. But everything cheap has a cost.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#454

Post by Waterluvian »

nom wrote: post #256

I never understood why people hate IKEA. Yes it's cheap. Yes it doesn't last a lifetime. Yes it needs a lot of wood. Yes it's highly optimized. But guess what, IKEA is a business responding to the needs of people. The negatives that are mentioned frequently are merely a symptom of our ever faster developing society. The people who complain are the same ones that just buy cheap crap from china without even thinking ab…

FWIW IKEA has a lot of solid wood (often pine) options that do last a very long time. My favourite thing is that they degrade gracefully. You get scuffs and dents rather than peeling laminate and engineered wood shavings falling out.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#455

Post by adrianN »

thehappypm wrote: post #442
adrianN wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most cost effective way is probably dropping a few hundred million anti personnel mines in the forest. They're very cheap to produce, very expensive to remove, and reliably keep people out of the area.

This is a joke, right?

I'm half-serious. It wouldn't be the first minefield that acts as a nature reserve, e.g. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-39821956 or https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/feb/06/living-i...

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#456

Post by pegasus »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #433
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people reading this are probably aware of the distinction in technical, legal terms. But it doesn't matter, because we're not prosecutors or the IRS. But I still call it tax evasion colloquially, because I'm just an average Joe who can't prosecute anyone so my legal opinion doesn't matter. My judgement is not whether it's illegal, but whether it's immoral and scummy. My neighbor, a self-employed painter, claimin…

The difference between avoidance and evasion is very important. One of them is legal and economically encouraged, the other one is an accusation of a crime. Also, most people learn this in high school. Calling it evasion when it is avoidance only confuses people as to what you mean, and makes people think you don't know what the terms mean. > My neighbor, a self-employed painter, claiming his work truck (that he also…

The exact opposite of tax avoidance is tax evasion? I think not. Tax evasion is legally tax avoidance that has been proven to be illegal. What about tax avoidance that hasn't yet been proven so, or maybe the charge has been thrown out on a technicality, or maybe it rests on exploiting a loop-hole? To me, that might not be tax evasion legally, but surely it's tax evasion in spirit. And since we're not in the middle of some courtroom proceedings, in spirit is how we should understand these words.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#457

Post by lotsofpulp »

jmalicki wrote: post #447
lotsofpulp wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the only solution for the legislator might be to make AI pay taxes as well. What taxes would AI pay? They're not selling items for profit. The only change that would need to happen is removing the ability to deduct charitable contributions from taxable income. I don't see any problem with that. People can still donate to AI with after tax income.

> They're not selling items for profit. https://shop.amnestyusa.org/ Not-for-profit firms make profits all of the time, and while I'm not familiar with UK tax codes, at least in the US the only fuzzy line is that pursuit of profits not be the end goal... quite a few "non-profits", such as hospitals, sell a large number of services for a profit!

I didn’t know amnesty sold things. I meant that AI doesn’t sell any products and services, like a hospital or business would, therefore AI wouldn’t have income to tax anyway. But I guess they do sell some items for brand awareness/raising funds, and I think treating it like any other business is appropriate to prevent a loophole from existing.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#458

Post by mystcb »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #234
mystcb wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a different point of view, I would say that I don't see their furniture as "designed to be disposable", more that there is good marked for re-use through other people. Spotted a few comments from people saying they have had second hand items (3rd, 4th etc) - and I think that in my head is where my version of "disposable" has come from. When I no longer want an Ikea product because it doesn't fit, or no longer ne…

When people say "designed to be disposable" they don't mean reuse is not possible - just not likely, because a thing wears out quickly, or is a hassle to give someone else. Former means there's not much of a second-hand market, the latter means that even giving away for free is too much work compared to just dumping it. I'm very much surprised about the amount of comments here on HN (today and in many previous discus…

Not thought about the re-assembly side of things - most of the second hand items I have collected didn't need dismantling - they came as one unit. (At the cost of the annoyance of moving it as a single unit!)

I am sure there are different experiences out there, could also be the circle of friends that do a lot of IKEA "freecycling" meaning I do see a higher quantity of re-used items being moved about.

I know that depending on the type of item as well there is a build quality issue - like Kallax shelving, it is a little more sturdier than the slightly cheaper version, and given I started with Kallax, I have stuck with it - Same with the Billy book cases too!

Although, the Diam Cake you can get from IKEA... that 100% is not going to waste, and 100% no one is getting a "second hand" one from me... there will be none left ;)

But returning back! It could be Apples to Oranges, there are so many products, and in my experience I have seen people stick to the same grouping of products as well, which could see re-use more possible than say another grouping (for any number of reasons).

Who knows, tomorrow the shelf behind me might just fall apart and I will be back eating my own words :)

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#459

Post by pegasus »

Fezzik wrote: post #448
mytailorisrich wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tax evasion" refers to illegal actions to indeed evade tax lawfully due. "Tax avoidance" is the perfectly legal practice of (more or less aggressively) minimising the amount of tax lawfully due. Everyone engages in tax avoidance at least to a degree.

People don’t like thinking this way... it’s difficult for a lot of people to grasp, for example, that if they have children and claim those children as a deduction they are thereby avoiding federal income taxes. Individuals avail themselves of the parts of the tax code that benefit them just like Big Corps do. You are not required to claim offspring as a deduction, so I guess by the logic of many people in this threa…

I most people wouldn't your example tax avoidance. That deduction is meant for that particular situation and claiming it is to be expected. Exploiting some complicated loop-hole is something else entirely. That's what most people would label as tax avoidance.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#460

Post by cardiffspaceman »

killtimeatwork wrote: post #348
dalbasal wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think IKEA represents plastic consumerism to people. A lot of people feel alienated from the modern world and IKEA registers as fake and therefore alienating. Mass produced, cheap culture with a copy in every house. The best criticisms of these kinds of "problems" are in pop art, as opposed to rational discourse. Fight Club is the canonical example. The film picks IKEA to symbolize the enemy and justification for s…

> Phoebe thinks she has an antique apothecary table. You can smell the history of opium and medicinal brews. Turns out it's IKEA. Off the top of my head, I think it was Pottery Barn, not IKEA.

It was labeled with the origin, White Plains (NY), "a magical place".
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