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FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection

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Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection

#211
post #207
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FDA approves ~40 drugs a year. If you want 40 new drugs a year, it unfortunately will cost somebody something to coordinate the large number of professionals over many years required by a modern development effort. Few drugs have been developed successfully on good intentions. I find excitement in the fact that we have found a way to get new treatments and cures. Other systems have been tried that weren’t so succ…

Could you elaborate a bit about which other systems have been tried, that weren't as successful?

I’m not familiar and it’s a complex topic. My knowledge comes from following the reforms in China and picking up bits and pieces of history. The overarching impression I’ve gotten is that a lot of ideas you can think of have been tried before in some capacity.

The USSR had a Ministry of Medical Industry and I think Japan might have gone with a bounty model? You can probably find more info.

Where everything falls over is that it’s just such a long journey from point A to B, where A is “a chemist has found something” and B is “an entire patient population is taking the drug.” There are a lot more steps than you’d think, and any alternative system needs to do well at each step due to the wildly varying incentives between participants.

As a toy thought experiment not based on real-world events, suppose the government has just paid a $500 million bounty for new Drug X that otherwise wouldn’t have been developed. The government now owns Drug X. Okay, great. But doctors aren’t prescribing it. So the government creates a Ministry for Doctor Education that tells clinicians what to prescribe. But the Ministry for Doctor Education develops its own goals and forgets that it’s supposed to help out the pharma bounty program in marketing new drugs. In the meantime, the government is outbid in manufacturing Drug X, and its contracted manufacturers are exporting Drug X overseas, so the government nationalizes the manufacturers. But then the manufacturers forget that they’re supposed to work on novel drugs and decide only to take on low-risk work. Etc. etc.

It just empirically works to have a tech transfer model where a set of entities gets rich by taking a drug on the entire journey into the bodies of thousands/millions of patients.

Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection

#212
post #76
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame that PrEP is still so expensive.

It’s frustrating that it’s so expensive for the most at-risk communities in the US. Because you can totally work the systems to get it affordably. Besides insurance, there are clinics, there are coupons, there are programs…but you have to have the information literacy and the time to figure out how to jump through all those hoops. Me, I work remotely, I have insurance, I live on the north side of Chicago, I can get m…

This implies that becoming HIV+ is increasingly a disease of the working poor (in countries like America without public health care). Or do public health care clinics have sufficient vouchers? In which case why wouldn’t people just resell their Truvada?

Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection

#213
post #73

> The cost, however, is steep — the list, or wholesale, price is $3,960 a month, or more than $47,500 a year. The list price for the one-time initiation dose is $5,490. Median income in the US is ~$31K apparently. So even in a rich country, this is like 50% more than the income of a typical person. My understanding is the funding for the trials was partly from NIAID. This seems like yet another case where public fund…

It's been authorized in the EU since last year [0] and I bet it'll be partially or completely reimbursed by health insurances.

0: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/rekambys#p...

Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My pronouns are they/them, thank you. I edited my comment within a couple minutes of posting it. Sorry about the confusion.

You didn’t edit your comment minutes afterwards. It was at least 1 hour afterwards. And sorry if you actually do prefer those gender terms. But honestly, it sounds like you’re just making shit up. I’m assuming you’re just a young white kid. I’ve met many of you in the tech industry who act like that. “Oh, I said something stupid and fucked up, let me pretend to be ‘woke’”. People like you exhaust me.

[deleted]

Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My pronouns are they/them, thank you. I edited my comment within a couple minutes of posting it. Sorry about the confusion.

You didn’t edit your comment minutes afterwards. It was at least 1 hour afterwards. And sorry if you actually do prefer those gender terms. But honestly, it sounds like you’re just making shit up. I’m assuming you’re just a young white kid. I’ve met many of you in the tech industry who act like that. “Oh, I said something stupid and fucked up, let me pretend to be ‘woke’”. People like you exhaust me.

Wrong on every count, bucko. Not young, not white, no making it up.

Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn’t edit your comment minutes afterwards. It was at least 1 hour afterwards. And sorry if you actually do prefer those gender terms. But honestly, it sounds like you’re just making shit up. I’m assuming you’re just a young white kid. I’ve met many of you in the tech industry who act like that. “Oh, I said something stupid and fucked up, let me pretend to be ‘woke’”. People like you exhaust me.

Wrong on every count, bucko. Not young, not white, no making it up.

Disgusting piece of shit. You deserve to die.

Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection

#217
post #209
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mean in this case, that may be, but it's certainly not true in the general case. Moderation comments have multiple functions. If it were just about this specific case it wouldn't be worth spending so much time on it, but they're also opportunities to explain the principles of this site to readers who might not have encountered those principles yet. For those who do already know this stuff, it's true that such…

I know I've been more snarky recently than I'd like have been. Lockdown in various countries is definitely bringing out the worst in people, some of the time; I obviously include myself this in this. Can't be easy moderating during a pandemic. Thanks for doing a good job.

Appreciated!

Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At 3k a month it makes the most sense to try and emigrate to a better country. Countries won't let you in if you're going to cost taxpayers too much. For example, New Zealand won't let you emigrate there if you have serious psoriasis, since treatment can cost thousands of dollars/month.

For biologics, sure, but steroid creams are the standard treatment and work quite well, and are much cheaper - maybe $100/year.

I used "serious psoriasis" when I should have used "severe psoriasis". If your psoriasis is treatable with steroids and methotrexate, it isn't all that severe.

But psoriasis wasn't the point. Expensive treatment that's expected to be ongoing is.

Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection

#220
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My understanding is the funding for the trials was partly from NIAID. I have no particular insight into the pricing of this drug, but in general, NIAID funding doesn't get anywhere close to the level of investment needed to bring a drug to market (NIAID's total budget is something like $5Bn. A single drug can easily require that much money to go to market). Moreover, it isn't a bright-line distinction between publi…

> I have no particular insight into the pricing of this drug, but in general, NIAID funding doesn't get anywhere close to the level of investment needed to bring a drug to market (NIAID's total budget is something like $5Bn. A single drug can easily require that much money to go to market). According to [1] "the estimated median capitalized research and development cost per product was $985 million, counting expendit…

"A $5 billion a year budget can go very far and the people should get the rewards for taking the risk, especially for a disease like HIV that has significant quality of life impacts on vulnerable populations."

This requires the starting axiom that profits are more important than human lives with respect to global public health. This is something that we as humans can decide, not some law of nature.

Big pharma's lobbying to enshrine IP rights by embedding them in the WTO has led to untold deaths from lack of access to medications in the developing world.

This Citations Needed podcast on "Vaccine Apartheid" contains much interesting information, even if you don't agree with the headline.

https://citationsneeded.medium.com/episode-129-vaccine-apart...

On a purely technical note, it's interesting to think about why it's cheaper to do the R&D to put a rocket into orbit than to develop a new therapy. Why does cutting-edge lab equipment cost $100k - $1M? This supply chain seems ripe for disruption.

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