Live data from Hacker News

I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

crystalprisonzone.blogspot.com

191–200 of 363 posts

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#191
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this behavior in Europeans and Americans too. It is not a Chinese specific thing...

I've never seen it in Spanish publications, although I've been told it happens (social sciences). I know about the politics too, that's the main reason why I never went to pursue an academic career, but being honest I never witnessed such plain fraud in my UNI. It was more of a friends-get-all scheme.

I think it depends on your field a little. I did not see this during my years in particle physics...

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about race, it's about the quality of the academic system, which is bad in many countries. I suppose GP intended it to compound - as in the guy was sketchy per se, and from a sketchy place.

> the academic system, which is bad in many countries. I suppose GP intended it to compound - as in the guy was sketchy per se, and from a sketchy place. is it good here? is here considered less sketchy?

Evidently it’s not perfect here but yes, it’s less sketchy, because there’s far worse out there.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is largely because results in math are easily verifiable compared to chemistry, or as an even worse example, the social sciences. The latter are also suffering from the replication crisis the most.

Math has a different problem. Because of the wide breadth of the field, and highly specialized nature of problems, it can take a very long time for anyone to actually verify a result with confidence. If ever. Unless you’re doing something famous like P!=NP, there might not be many people capable of checking your work in a reasonable amount of time. The story of Fermat’s Last is a great example, what would have happen…

I agree, even proofs are wrong more often than you’d think, but I’m not sure whether math is actually so uniquely broad that other fields don’t suffer from this problem.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but this saddens me to no end, even I did better science during my BSc and MSc; it's not just disheartening, it's frightening. Reading this almost made me feel ill to my stomach. I don't know what else to say at the blatant disregard for scientific ethics and sense of duty. And we complain that the public at large doesn't trust us "educated" folk, well I can't see why...

My own, rather bitter, experiences with academic research in the early 1990s led me to suspect that by trying to "manage" academic research at a large scale was utterly counter productive and was optimising for all the wrong things (publications, career progression, money, politics) and was actually dramatically reducing the amount of actual science being done. I left, co-founded a startup and never regretted it for…

I had the 'luck' of being a research assistant at a prestigious academic collaboration involving multiple equally prestigious universities. This was in my bachelor years, and I still hadn't decided whether to pursue a career in academia or elsewhere.

While the experience day to day was definitely fun, it destroyed any desire I had of entering the field. A lot of politics, a lot of statistically suspect stuff (even to me, in my third year of a bachelor), and a lot of busiwork.

After that experience I went into web development (full-stack). What I like about it is that even though there IS politics, even though there IS taking shortcuts, and god forgive me for some of the code I delivered, in the end whatever I work on has to actually do the thing it's supposed to do. It doesn't remove the aforementioned problems, but it grounds everything in a way that is mostly acceptable to me.

As frustrating as it can be to build some convoluted web app that feels like it's held together by scotch tape, it's nice to know that it eventually has to do whatever the client asks for, however flawed.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#195
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every now and then I go through some of wikipedias sources on certain social topics because I don't trust them at all. The amount of BS I've found in papers, even though I don't eve have any research background at all is impressive. My favourite was probably this one paper where the author essentially made a reddit-post asking a community about themselves, then cherry-picked (the post is still up, with timestamps and…

Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia. It’s a secondary source that aggregates knowledge from primary sources. For all the problems wikipedia does have, this isn’t one of them. It’s not their job to second guess published research.

> Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia

An encyclopaedia with rather low standards that many people sadly treat as an absolute source of truth.

You're right that this isn't really a wikipedia problem though. It's a matter of education because an overwhelming majority of the population isn't competent enough to fact-check memes on facebook, let alone wikipedia, and if wikipedia doesn't do it either, then that responsibility is pushed all the way back to the scientists doing the actual research.

This is an incredible lack of redundancy if you consider how important wikipedia has become in shaping public opinion. It's a system where the scientific publication process is the single point of failure and this article clearly shows that it does fail rather often.

So what way is there to make this process safer? There needs to be at least another link in the chain that confirms information, preferably two or three.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#197

The article mentions Brandolini’s Law: “The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it.” It's the first time I've heard it, but it's a very appropriate observation in today's world where misinformation travels faster and wider than correct information. If you're just making stuff up, it's much faster than looking up sources.

Information travels very quickly through a medium that wishes it to be true.

You will find that the ability of the human mind to be critical, to refute with very salient arguments is suddenly acute when the mind doesn't wish it to be true, and this definitely also applies to H.N. comments.

That H.N. in this case is so accepting to this one side of the story suggests to me that this is the side it seems to want to be true, notwithstanding it might entirely be, or not be, true.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#198
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worse. If you mention that you are not trusting every scientific results per se, you're being labeled as stupid and uneducated . This sort of absolute reasoning is making the distrust even worse. How can you have trust in a in a system that is unwilling to publicly admit its shortcomings? Trust and honesty come in pairs.

This science-bro movement scares me too. "But SCIENCE said so! You're a SCIENCE denier!" It feels like a religion, with its own T-shirts and all. Appeals to authority, intellectual posturing… often from people with little understanding of the actual science. Honest insiders are way more careful with any absolute statements. No wonder there's a (also scary) rise of conspiracy theories. How do people not observe those…

I think people have to get more serious about separating science as a procedure from scientism (that is, philosophical issues that are often discussed in tandem). When one uses the phrase, “science denier”, it often means, “you don’t agree with my philosophy/metaphysics/economic policy” rather than “you deny these particular facts”, which causes people to be rightly concerned. I’m not optimistic that this is going to change anytime soon, but this, I think, accounts for many of the issues in current discourse.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#199

Chinese researcher is full of shit and fabricates results, news at 11. For the haters, this is not racism but nationalism, China super incentivizes bullshit research at a high level these days, and it's gotten bad enough that we're starting to distrust any "work" that comes out of it. I don't know what the solution is, other than to subject Chinese submissions to more stringent and specifically non-Chinese review. Th…

Why would it be racist?

I have noticed in English-language discourse that often, shall-we-call-it, “non-white countries” are “races” but “white countries” are “nations”.

Also, Christianity and Judaïsm are religions, but Islām is a race.

Explain me that.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#200
post #178

Many stories like this and people wonder why the general public is less "believing" in science lately. I think sadly the general public is right not to believe as strongly in science as it maybe once did, the results though are dramatic in "baby bathwater" kind of proportions. I think science should fix itself. Just publishing paper should not be the metric to reward. A retraction should seriously reward the flaw fin…

It is very good that the general public is less believing in science.

I remember well when the public was very believing, including me, and in hindsight it was always undeserving of such faith.

It was a very misguided thing to take a conclusion as fact, so long as it be called “science”, for often upon closer inspection the methodology was dubious, and it was never attempted to be reproduced, so even if the methodology were sound, the data could either be a fluke, or outright fabricated.

This is not a new development; if anything, the critical stance is the new development. It has been going on for centuries most likely that completely fabricated data stoot the test of time because no one bothered to replicate it. When I was at university in the 2000s, we were already told of respected researchers that fell from grace as it was found they had been fabricating data for decades and it took this long for someone to catch wind of it, as no one bothers to replicate research in this world.

The only new development is that now, some are starting to.

“Science” is not enough to believe it; the methodology must be inspected and found to be salient, and the data must have been replicated at least once, præferably more, by another independent group.

Post reply on HN