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IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

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Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#41

Post by Snoddas »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #17
andy_ppp wrote: post #5

How much would buying all the Brazilian rain forest cost the world, or even renting it from Brazil? We would need it to be slightly more than cattle farming to work... but I’d happily pay towards this.

I read an article commenting on "microlending", which came to the conclusion that the concept doesn't really work. Your loan of $3.50 might really mean something to the peasant who receives it. But it means nothing to you, and so microloans end up with no one vetting the borrower for creditworthiness or hassling them to collect. This incentive mismatch ends up spoiling the project; there's no reason for someone not t…

I have about usd 100 rotating in different micro loans through https://www.kiva.org/ In 11 years only one loan has defaulted.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#42

Post by johnnycerberus »

Not implying that this is corporate propaganda to cater to the US public, but something similar happened to my country where saving the planet is not on the agenda of its citizens since there are other problems that need to be solved first. [1]

"IKEA’s goal is to purchase wood which is 100 per cent FSC-certified from these countries. At the same time there are many indications that forests with high conservation values are being logged by FSC-certified companies. FSC-certification is far from a guarantee for socially- and environmentally friendly forestry and FSC has received serious criticism from many environmental organizations, both in Sweden and internationally. Several environmental organizations have left FSC in protest. " [2]

So practically, you have a situation where IKEA acts on some shady rules established by this FCS that are unreliable. Moreover, countries with corrupt officials will eventually end up in prison but too late, before the harm is done. Generally, if as a Romanian I go outside to protest against IKEA and corrupt politicians exploiting the Carpathians, I'm told that I don't respect private property and that IKEA acts according to the laws of that country (created by corrupt policians with shady lobbies), in the end IKEA becomes the victim.

[1] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ikea-buys-83000-acre-fore... [2] http://skyddaskogen.se/en/news/4852-ikea-s-forest-in-romania...

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#43

Post by Heliosmaster »

mschuster91 wrote: post #6
kleiba wrote: post #2

the forest was bought by IKEA as part of a strategy to reduce more carbon than it creates through its value chain They might want to write that into their books, but note that by buying an existing forest, no additional CO2 reduction is achieved on a global scale.

> but note that by buying an existing forest, no additional CO2 reduction is achieved on a global scale. A forest that is left untouched acts as a CO2 sink by photosynthesis and "capturing" the CO2 as bio-mass. A re-forestation of land previously used for agriculture acts as a bigger CO2 sink because the potential for biomass capture is greater there.

What's best is doing the oil extraction in opposite. Grow plants and capture CO2, bury them in a way that prevents decomposition (is that possible?).

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#44

Post by ATsch »

throw8932894 wrote: post #16

If you avoid paying taxes, it is easy to be charitable. Wikipedia: > The IKEA group has a complex corporate structure, which members of the European Parliament have alleged was designed to avoid over €1 billion in tax payments over the 2009–2014 period.[14][15] It is controlled by several foundations based in the Netherlands and Liechtenstein.[16][17]

The most indisputable proof to me of our nonprofit and charity systems being complete bullshit has always been the fact that IKEA is a nonprofit "to promote better interior design".

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#45

Post by KaiserPro »

fimdomeio wrote: post #13

I have a problem with IKEA. Aren't those peaces of furniture made of composite materials and those not so sturdy shelves a sustainability problem when compared to traditional furniture making which is mostly wood glue a protective coat which lasts for hundreds of years can be infinitely repaired in a workshop with some basic tools. And then it it all ends it can became firewood, which ikea furniture can't. Shouldn't…

I have lots of Ikea furniture, I also have some "real"

In terms of longevity, I don't see that much of a difference. They both require basic care and maintenance to keep in one piece.

People throw away furniture, regardless of who/how its made. Thats the issue we need to tackle.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#46

Post by eptcyka »

fladrif wrote: post #21
carpdiem wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forests are not perpetual carbon sinks, as trees eventually die and then decompose, releasing their carbon back into the atmosphere. At best, a young and growing forest can be a temporary carbon sink, until it reaches maturity (and steady state). Alternatively, a forest might support continual carbon sinking if and only if the recently dead and/or mature trees were somehow harvested and treated/stored in such a way t…

Is that accurate? I can't believe that decomposition releases _all_ of the carbon into the atmosphere. Certainly a good amount of it is sequestered into the ground (e.g. coal). Thus a standing forest is never completely carbon neutral.

How exactly would wood just turn into coal, once it dies and falls down? You need really high pressures to form coal, this just doesn't happen without the residual biomass getting burried in some massive geological event. Dead trees are eaten by mushrooms and insects, which all produce CO2.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#47

Post by [deleted] »

piokoch wrote: post #14

This smells like some really bold and really ridiculous PR attempt. "Ikea uses about one percent—yes, one percent—of the world's entire commercial wood supply. That amounts to about 17.8 million cubic yards of lumber last year. " [1] I guess they need this PR purchase to appease some eko organization. And this is equally ridiculous. Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. Why they have to explain them…

[deleted]

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#48

Post by bayindirh »

fimdomeio wrote: post #13

I have a problem with IKEA. Aren't those peaces of furniture made of composite materials and those not so sturdy shelves a sustainability problem when compared to traditional furniture making which is mostly wood glue a protective coat which lasts for hundreds of years can be infinitely repaired in a workshop with some basic tools. And then it it all ends it can became firewood, which ikea furniture can't. Shouldn't…

> Aren't those peaces of furniture made of composite materials and those not so sturdy shelves.

I'd gladly invite to my study, which is decorated using IKEA Galant (office) furniture. Every item in the set is high density wood composite and tables are built upon steel structures. They would outlast my children easily if they're not abused on purpose.

Or my Kitchen, which is again built by IKEA with high density composite and its workmanship made a good carpenter jealous.

If you want top of the line items in a category, look for "Stockholm" series.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#49

Post by thaumasiotes »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #37
thaumasiotes wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read an article commenting on "microlending", which came to the conclusion that the concept doesn't really work. Your loan of $3.50 might really mean something to the peasant who receives it. But it means nothing to you, and so microloans end up with no one vetting the borrower for creditworthiness or hassling them to collect. This incentive mismatch ends up spoiling the project; there's no reason for someone not t…

But they weren't suggesting individual purchases. A very large group doing a very large purchase can buy cost-effective security.

> A very large group doing a very large purchase can buy cost-effective security.

That really depends on how much they want the security. People defend territory all the time. It's very, very expensive to do that -- have a look at some city walls -- but it's cost-effective because they are using the territory.

But no, no matter how large the group, they cannot buy cost-effective security for their giant stretch of wilderness if their plan for it is "don't use it" and there are other people who do have a use for it. Compare American government efforts to stop people from using land to grow marijuana. Is the problem that the American government just isn't big enough?

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#50

Post by ornornor »

namdnay wrote: post #28
fimdomeio wrote: post #13

I have a problem with IKEA. Aren't those peaces of furniture made of composite materials and those not so sturdy shelves a sustainability problem when compared to traditional furniture making which is mostly wood glue a protective coat which lasts for hundreds of years can be infinitely repaired in a workshop with some basic tools. And then it it all ends it can became firewood, which ikea furniture can't. Shouldn't…

There seems to be a misconception that Ikea is all cheap composite. It's really not true, they cover a wide range, and they have full-wood models for nearly all product categories Obviously most people buy the cheap stuff, but that's the case of any low/medium end furniture chain really

They have pieces that aren’t particle board. These pieces are the lowest quality pine they could find. It’s super soft so it’s very easy to put a dent in and it’s not particularly well protected either so you end up throwing it away after a while as well. Maybe not as soon as the particle board junk but not much later either.

Ikea used to be well made and decent quality 20 years ago. It all went downhill from there and now most of their furniture gets damaged by just looking at it.

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