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Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

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Re: Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

#201

Post by andrewprock »

vmception wrote: post #196
emptyparadise wrote: post #46

My question to everyone supporting restrictions on speech and supporting privacy violations, even for good reasons, is this: are you prepared to have these tools fall into the wrong hands? The same methods used to quickly shut down a dangerous website or to track down a terrorist by their online posts can be used to silence protests and to hunt down political opposition.

The US has strong speech protections, somehow when people are wrong in their beliefs about what that means they move the goal post to this mythical “ethical” free speech maxim. I dont believe in what those people imagine free speech means. I believe in the “first amendment” which includes freedom of association including for the non-government people that create venues and platforms. “We have the right to refuse serv…

I have to agree with this sentiment strongly. As much as I may lament today's social media landscape, it is only a drop in the bucket when it comes to my ability to participate in our cultural zeitgeist. And as long as we are going to pursue capitalism with gusto, I am in favor of capitalists controlling their own business - modulo protected class issues.

Re: Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

#202

Post by pdx6 »

The article only mentions Rokfin, but what other live stream alternatives are there? Youtube has the most draw and algo suggestions, along with a huge community. I pay for YT because it offers a lot of great content and a good value, so I understand why creators would want to stick to that platform.

And what about indie streaming? Is there some package that glues some open source components, either to the cloud or bare metal?

I feel like there is a space for another livestream community, like YT, like Twitch, and like a Podcast, but without the main stream market filters. Maybe there is and I'm not aware of it.

When Defcon did their 'live stream' last year, they did a torrent of the pre-recorded content, YT, and Twitch because they were worried something might go wrong. By wrong it could have been anything from knocking over the service to getting banned for ... Defcon ideas. I don't think the Defcon shoot out was on there. They added live Q&A with Discord and YT. But that was it -- the only open source part was Discord (which did fall over).

Re: Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

#203

Post by CivBase »

mercurialshark wrote: post #180
CivBase wrote: post #147

The constitution protects our freedom of speech from the government, not from private entities on their own private property. Make no mistake, that's what centralized social media platforms are - private property. Freedom of speech is not protected by the constitution on social media platforms and, frankly, I don't want 100% free speech on social media. Take a look at HN. HN mods do a brilliant job of moderating. We…

I would encourage you to read this article from the EFF. They do an excellent job of explaining material concerns regarding private censorship and chokepoints for the freedom of expression: "Beyond Platforms: Private Censorship, Parler, and the Stack" https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/01/beyond-platforms-priva...

Thanks! That was a good read.

While I want spcial media platforms to preserve their right to moderate content, I'm still not sure how I feel about services further down the stack getting involved (like AWS did with Parler).

Re: Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

#204

Post by andrewprock »

stale2002 wrote: post #173
erikpukinskis wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would your law end? I’m curious how you’d write it... Would it be something like: “No person may delete content which has been made publically accessible on a server they administer without a court order demanding that content’s removal”? Would you have a certain size threshold, like the law kicks in when you hit 1 million monthly uniques?

> Where would your law end? I’m curious how you’d write it... There is an easy answer to this. We could just model this stuff after other similar laws, that apply to other networks. Those similar laws, are called common carrier laws, and they could be expanded to apply to more things.

The first step in that process is restoring net neutrality.

Re: Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

#205

Post by [deleted] »

marcinzm wrote: post #181
jb775 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the private companies start getting billion dollar contracts with the government, or are lobbying politicians for laws massively benefitting the companies in the long run, it's safe to say the decisions behind the "private rules" will be impacted accordingly.

Nothing is a perfect system, I support the one I feel has the best chance of ensuring a stable but evolving society. Not restricting things has resulted in the governing body of the US getting attacked by an angry armed mob inside a federal government building. So that's not a viable option for a stable society. The government is both subject to changing political whims and has a history of overusing it's control in…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

#206

Post by colllectorof »

bawolff wrote: post #72
emptyparadise wrote: post #46

My question to everyone supporting restrictions on speech and supporting privacy violations, even for good reasons, is this: are you prepared to have these tools fall into the wrong hands? The same methods used to quickly shut down a dangerous website or to track down a terrorist by their online posts can be used to silence protests and to hunt down political opposition.

What tools are these actually - the delete button? When it comes down to it - i like moderated spaces on the internet. I dont want to wade through spam, not to mention violent and abusive content. I don't like seeing shock images. So yes, i support having moderation. The question to me is not: yes/no moderation, its where you draw the line; what are your policies and how are they enforced. Fundamentally i think the s…

>if youtube becomes to dranicon, start a new website.

You are clearly ignorant of the kinds of shit actual YouTube alternatives have to deal with. Their websites and videos get de-ranked or de-listed from search (Rumble [1]), their apps get removed from app store (LBRY [2]), their infrastructure gets constant attacks (BitChute [3]). Meanwhile, the mainstream media smears them at every opportunity.

This is nothing like the environment that Google and YouTube were started in.

https://rumble.com/vcxrxh-rumbles-anti-trust-lawsuit-against...

https://lbry.tv/@lbry:3f/googlebanslbry:7

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/censorship-bitchute-depl...

Re: Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

#207

Post by swirepe »

miguelmota wrote: post #132
emptyparadise wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fundamentally i think the solution is competitors. This was a much easier position to take when the web did not just have a few social media giants with network effects, but still: if youtube becomes to dranicon, start a new website. The tools to stream video (albeit not at scale) are just an apt-get away. I agree. I wouldn't have a problem with YouTube doing anything if YouTube wasn't the video website. We need dec…

There's always talk about decentralizing content platforms but these decentralized non-blockchain social network and messaging protocols have existed for years: - Scuttlebutt - GNUnet - Secureshare - Fereenet - ZeroNet - Retroshare - Diaspora - Mastadon - Matrix - Cabal Decentralized platforms put more responsibility on the user (key management, account recovery, content hosting, etc) which is unlikely to get mass ad…

For anyone scrolling past this list, I had a lot of fun with Retroshare. It's like the Napster we never had, but with gardening books instead of music.

Re: Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

#208

Post by Outdoorsman »

In my opinion, live content is often on target, just as often poorly thought out. The citizenry votes with ballots . . . and dollars. One is often as effective as the other in steering a nation toward ethical behavior. Keep in mind: A representative democracy is a grand historical experiment. If you value it, value the things that keep it going.

Re: Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

#209

Post by pdx6 »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #133

I think Peertube with its decentralized live streaming where the moderator of the instances and moderator of remote instances where their videos are federated to are the way forward. You dont like some instances' moderation rules, go and set up your own and then federate with only like minded people and servers. Will it "support" extremism, probably, but will it cause them to get stuck in their own defederated bubble…

I see from their blog that they support live stream now. Very interesting solution, but it lacks a community (at least at first glance). I wonder what a good social pairing with it would be to help drive traffic between federations.

Re: Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest target: live content

#210

Post by rebuilder »

cbozeman wrote: post #167
rebuilder wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing mass murderers to stream their crimes live is not going to fly. I think that's pretty clear. So, Youtube has to do something about it. The way traditional broadcast media handles this is that they know whoever's reporting, and have someone watching who can pull the plug if that reporter goes nuts. This is apparently too expensive for YouTube, so they use blunter tools.

Budd Dwyer blew his brains out on live television. Thousands saw the broadcast live. The broadcast was actually shown unedited later that day. This kind of stuff isn't new. I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I just do not see any way that you can navigate around this. As for all the Moms (and Dads) who clutch their pearls and scream to YouTube, "HOW COULD YOU LET ME SON/DAUGHTER/CAT SEE THIS KIND OF MATE…

I'm not talking about people being offended. I'm talking about people being murdered for publicity, as a propaganda effort, and YouTube having to deal with the fallout.
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