> The cost, however, is steep — the list, or wholesale, price is $3,960 a month, or more than $47,500 a year. The list price for the one-time initiation dose is $5,490. Median income in the US is ~$31K apparently. So even in a rich country, this is like 50% more than the income of a typical person. My understanding is the funding for the trials was partly from NIAID. This seems like yet another case where public fund…
FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection
181–190 of 220 posts
Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
3k month sounds about right for a chronic condition. Many many people pay at least this to stay alive. That said , Universal Health Care is needed for stuff like this to work. At 3k a month it makes the most sense to try and emigrate to a better country.
That doesn't scale. If you push the cost of healthcare to other countries when it becomes too expensive instead of fixing the system in the country where you live then every other country with a better system's healthcare will collapse as well. Vote to improve the system where you live and make sure that your representatives realize that it could be them or their relatives in your situation. Quite a few countries hav…
Let's say there are two variables you can optimize for, X and Y, and that there are tradeoffs between optimizations such as optimizing for X often reduces Y and optimizing for Y often reduces X.
The problem with the popular discussion today is that no one ever acknowledges what the US system does well. They only talk about what it does poorly. If you don't acknowledge what it does well, it's trivially easy to come up with solutions that address the things it does poorly, but often at the expense of creating a new replacement that now does poorly at the thing that the previous system did well.
In the US, the system is remarkably effective at optimizing for financial incentives. The replacement system many people argue for will likely lay waste to optimizing for financial incentives. This doesn't come without a cost however. Eliminate the financial incentives and you will at minimum get less of two very important things: (1) investment by companies and capital markets in R&D, and (2) investment in a career in the field of drug R&D by individuals deciding what career to pursue. The loss of one or both would be devastating to the development of novel treatments in perpetuity.
As a general heuristic, I've found it valuable to figure out what a system does well before I propose a solution to replace it. If I can't articulate what a system does well, it's typically a sign that I don't yet understand the system well enough and don't understand what that system's designers were optimizing for when it was first implemented. This heuristic is applicable to all pretty much all systems, not just health care.
Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
He edited his comment to say “(for me)” after I had replied. Also, if you click damnyou@‘s comment history, you’ll clearly see that he loves using the phrase “in fact” without supporting his assumptions. I didn’t deserve to be downvoted.
My pronouns are they/them, thank you. I edited my comment within a couple minutes of posting it. Sorry about the confusion.
And sorry if you actually do prefer those gender terms. But honestly, it sounds like you’re just making shit up. I’m assuming you’re just a young white kid. I’ve met many of you in the tech industry who act like that. “Oh, I said something stupid and fucked up, let me pretend to be ‘woke’”. People like you exhaust me.
Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
Globally there are ~50 new drugs per year. Total public and private spending on drug R&D hits ~190B per year. So even including government and charity donations your only up to 4 billion per drug. Private companies nominally cover ~60% of that dropping their investment to ~2.3 billion per successful drug. However, that’s overly generous as a great deal of tax breaks etc indirectly subsidize that 2.3 Billion. So, it’s…
This is not a bad back of the envelope analysis. Forbes did one a while back that looked at 10 year R&D spend and then 10 year approvals (to account for the delay). Numbers vary wildly between companies. But one thing to keep in mind is using your number, there are plenty of drugs that get approved that only have a few billion in sales over their lifetime. So either break even or not even breaking even. It’s a massiv…
While time value of memory explains some of that it’s still a huge discrepancy. Advertising etc make up the difference and while cost effective for the company, their harder to justify as a fraction of drug prices. Especially when over prescription is so harmful due to side effects and adverse drug interactions.
Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
I did not downvote you, for the record. I thought your questions were useful and I hope I answered them to the best of my ability. This pandemic has been hard on all of us. Take care.
? I’m not sure what the pandemic has to do with this. I looked at your comment history and you say “in fact” without supporting your opinions _often_ to the point that I laughed. Also, you edited your original comment which probably led to the downvotes. I’m assuming you must also correlate the pandemic with your immaturity then.
Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection
#186> The cost, however, is steep — the list, or wholesale, price is $3,960 a month, or more than $47,500 a year. The list price for the one-time initiation dose is $5,490. Median income in the US is ~$31K apparently. So even in a rich country, this is like 50% more than the income of a typical person. My understanding is the funding for the trials was partly from NIAID. This seems like yet another case where public fund…
For example, about 7% of the world’s population collectively has some sort of a rare disease, which is theoretically treated with orphan drugs. There are also people who chronically live with cancer who end up living quite a long time. Diabetes, (type 1 or type 2) with or without complications, is quite expensive in the US.
I personally have 2 rare immune mediated neurological diseases affecting my peripheral nervous system. The only medication that has kept me in pharmaceutical remission is subcutaneous immunoglobulin (intravenous immunoglobulin did not work), and I have tried 10 different treatments plus combinations of them. When I was living in the US, my private commercial insurance paid, under contract (not the amount that was being billed which was much higher!), $100 per gram. In other words, they were paying $23,500/month for my blood product or $282,000/year.
In Europe, where I live now, the price goes for 40 Euro (about $50/gram).
Anyways, you should watch this, “The World’s Most Expensive Drug” (which it no longer is), which is quite revealing: https://youtu.be/0uYCw5EDX8U
Alexion (a pharma company) started the trend and now the have drugs that cost millions per year over, that are required over the course of a lifetime: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/25/health/drug-prices-rare-d...
There is a good documentary on it (requires a Hulu subscription): https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/the-weekly/rare-diseases-...
Anyways, the prices of these drugs are an insult to the intelligence of a lot of scientists and (formal) engineers.
I also have type 1 diabetes, and because of my training in electrical engineering, I could tell by reading patents on analog insulin patents that a 10 mL bottle of insulin cost somewhere between $1-$10 to produce. Turns out that it costs between $3-$6 to produce. At its worse, in the US, it cost $350 per 10 mL vial for analog insulin.
Anyways, the best way of dealing with this situation is by having even the most disabled people working to offset these prices, along with having universal healthcare with price controls. Unfortunately worker protection against discrimination in the US is very poor and when your health benefits are tied to work then it just does not work. Patent law also needs to be reformed, and if the prices are obscene and unjustifiable, then they should be seized.
Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. I would be curious how these stats compare when measured in lost person-years. COVID primarily kills the elderly, AIDS (when untreated) kills everyone. 2. We have a 40 year head start on HIV vs. COVID. Surely it can't be that hard, in the digital age, to set up a central database with the following columns, updated in real time: [Datetime of Test, Zip code, Result (pos/neg)]
It isn't that it is hard to set this up. The question is what value is there to setting this up? Especially the way that HIV/AIDS was originally and to a certain extent still is stigmatized. Many people have had friends or family die of AIDS and still refuse to acknowledge that was the reason for their death. The end result is that not only is this type of project more valuable for a new and rapidly spreading disease…
Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection
#188> The cost, however, is steep — the list, or wholesale, price is $3,960 a month, or more than $47,500 a year. The list price for the one-time initiation dose is $5,490. Median income in the US is ~$31K apparently. So even in a rich country, this is like 50% more than the income of a typical person. My understanding is the funding for the trials was partly from NIAID. This seems like yet another case where public fund…
>I'm glad that this works and that there is another, more convenient and effective treatment option. But shouldn't we have some setup where if tax dollars pay for the research, the government should own a share of the IP commensurate with their funding level, and should then be able to have some say in pricing? >Or, if you think that the government itself shouldn't own IP for a product on the market, can we create an…
Because of the disease, I had uncontrollable orthostatic hypotension (low blood pressure when sitting/standing up), and I was passing out multiple times a day. I also was diagnosed with multiple types of arrhythmia.
If it were not for the US government, I would not be alive. I am a dual US|EU citizen, and while being American is naturally a huge part of my identity, I would not be afraid to renounce my US citizenship. The only reason why I do not is because the US literally saved my life and others with the disease I have, worldwide.
Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does anyone actually end up paying the 47,500 a year for the drug or is this some sort of gimmick on the part of the drug company when they negotiate reimbursement rates with CMS or other payers?
I'd imagine this cost would generally be borne by insurers or a government health care body.
Re: FDA approves first monthly injectable to treat HIV infection
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
You seem to be implying that IUDs are much less popular than the pill. That is not the case. They are just behind the pill in popularity. Also, people on PrEP already need to do regular bloodwork, so needles and appointments are already involved every few months. Doing an appointment every 2 months instead of every 3 and not needing to take a daily pill as well is a huge win in level of effort. https://www.cdc.gov/nc…
“You seem to be implying that IUDs are much less popular than the pill. That is not the case. They are just behind the pill in popularity.” Your first sentence makes no sense. You say that I’m implying that pills are more popular yet you confirm that indeed they are. Unless, you’re saying that I was implying that they’re _heavily_ more popular, which is also not what I implied. You’re completely missing the point. I’…
I think this is a wonderful thing and that we should spread the word when these new treatments are available so that more people know they have options if they like the sound of occasional injections but don't like daily pills or vice versa.