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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#801

Post by Paradigma11 »

sidlls wrote: post #691
etchalon wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the machines, if not most, had paper ballot backups in addition to the electronic counts. When audited, the paper counts matched the machine counts. So the issue isn't "electronic voting" vs. "paper ballots".

No, that's pretty much the issue. Voting isn't a technology problem; it's a funding and people problem like most political issues. Other countries--large, developed countries--don't take days to hand-count paper ballots, and the tallies don't need people blathering about audits and statistics for voters to have confidence in them. The fact that it takes as long as it does in the US and there is still a fear that it's…

The way i see it voting machines mostly act as input validation to prevent faulty votes. US ballots can be quite complicated, it seems. The process still generates an auditable paper trail that is regarded as truth. Afaik there also have not been discrepances between the electronic and paper counts.

If people dont understand that printed paper ballots cant be changed by an air gapped electronic system you wont gain their trust anyway.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#802

Post by sidlls »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #801
sidlls wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's pretty much the issue. Voting isn't a technology problem; it's a funding and people problem like most political issues. Other countries--large, developed countries--don't take days to hand-count paper ballots, and the tallies don't need people blathering about audits and statistics for voters to have confidence in them. The fact that it takes as long as it does in the US and there is still a fear that it's…

The way i see it voting machines mostly act as input validation to prevent faulty votes. US ballots can be quite complicated, it seems. The process still generates an auditable paper trail that is regarded as truth. Afaik there also have not been discrepances between the electronic and paper counts. If people dont understand that printed paper ballots cant be changed by an air gapped electronic system you wont gain t…

The point is that the electronic machines aren’t necessary to have secure and trusted elections. Our ballots are more complicated because the counting technology is.

Electronic voting is unnecessary and unnecessarily complicated. Your response to this is basically “they’re too dumb to to understand and so don’t matter anyway.”

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#803

Post by bredren »

rsynnott wrote: post #193
mbg721 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, then prosecute him for the actual crimes he committed.

Lying about a company generally isn't a crime (except in restricted circumstances; there are probably scenarios where it could be a securities law issue, say), but a company is absolutely able to take a civil suit against someone who maliciously lies about it.

I realize this thread is flagged, but this reminded me of the recent situation in Thailand and the review on Tripadvisor. Thought I'd share in case you hadn't seen it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/09/world/asia/thailand-revie...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#804

Post by CountDrewku »

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Why would you want to do that? Voter fraud happens regularly. Probably not to the extent that the election flips but I see no issue with asking fraud claims to be looked into. There 0 good excuse to completely ignore fraud claims. IF you really want confidence in our system all claims of abuse should be taken seriously. Tossing them out and acting like fraud never happens is every bit as ridiculous as claiming the election was rife with it. The only way to determine they're "baseless" is to actually investigate them.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#805

Post by dang »

javajosh wrote: post #185
javajosh wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[Dominion will probable be] treated as a public figure." Why? I'd never heard of them before November 2020, and I imagine that is true for most people. I'd also be curious to learn more about what counts as "reckless disregard for the truth", if you're willing to share.

On a side note, interestingly every single post I've made in the last week has been downvoted. Even this one, which is literally just asking questions. Its almost like I'm being targeted. Dang? Is something going on?

You've been getting downvoted by a large number of established HN users, and from a quick look it seems to me that the fault lies with your comments. Maybe there are exceptions, but the ones I saw in that ended up with negative points were unsubstantive and often inflammatory. Please stop posting like that to HN, and make more of an effort to stick to the intended use of the site—thoughtful, informative conversation on topics of intellectual curiosity, avoiding flamebait. Do that and the downvote issue should go away. If it doesn't, you can email us at that point: hn@ycombinator.com. But please don't compound the guidelines breakage by posting like you did here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#806

Post by Paradigma11 »

sidlls wrote: post #802
Paradigma11 wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way i see it voting machines mostly act as input validation to prevent faulty votes. US ballots can be quite complicated, it seems. The process still generates an auditable paper trail that is regarded as truth. Afaik there also have not been discrepances between the electronic and paper counts. If people dont understand that printed paper ballots cant be changed by an air gapped electronic system you wont gain t…

The point is that the electronic machines aren’t necessary to have secure and trusted elections. Our ballots are more complicated because the counting technology is. Electronic voting is unnecessary and unnecessarily complicated. Your response to this is basically “they’re too dumb to to understand and so don’t matter anyway.”

Afaik the ballots are complicated because you also have tons of stuff like sheriffs, judges.. on it. And sometimes a confusing ballot is better for one party to suppress the vote of certain populations.

"Your response to this is basically “they’re too dumb to to understand and so don’t matter anyway.”" No, my response is that a pure paper ballot system wont change a thing and would just shift the conspiracy theories to other parts of the system.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#807

Post by jjeaff »

lettergram wrote: post #471
antiterra wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antrim county was audited and no fraud was found. I don’t consider their expert to be particularly credible and their conclusions (with leaps of faith as to assumed motive) are not even borne out by the facts as they reported. An overly sensitive page size detection could produce the same discrepancies they claimed to find. The ‘expert’ in the Antrim document also claimed over 100% of registered voters voted in vario…

Note, I made no claim on what is or is not credible. I simply stated that there were experts claiming that. This gives cover for Rudy

You should read the Dominion filing against Rudy. They leave no stone unturned to show that not only were Rudy's sources not experts, but that Rudy knew they weren't experts.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#808

Post by perl4ever »

TigeriusKirk wrote: post #730
perl4ever wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NY, you do fill out a paper ballot, it's scanned, done. I assume they keep the ballots in case they need to count them... I was curious who makes the voting machines that are used here. It's apparently a company called ES&S: "Election Systems and Software (ES&S) 11208 John Galt Blvd, Omaha NE" https://www.essvote.com/

> John Galt Blvd Someone has a sense of humor, at least.

It must be an accident/coincidence? It would worry me if it's not.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#809

Post by jjeaff »

tptacek wrote: post #134

Ken White has been talking about the potential for this suit for a couple weeks now. He spends a lot of time talking about what isn't defamation --- people use defamation suits and threats thereof to chill free speech, and he's a 1st Amendment guy --- but the Dominion cases are apparently examples of very serious defamation cases. The core of defamation is (1) a false statement of purported fact that (2) causes damag…

>The problem is that it's not totally clear whether Giuliani believed any of his crazy-talk. It may actually be the case that Giuliani is just off his rocker.

Notice that Dominion, in their filing comes right out swinging for that very ball. They start out with multiple cases where Rudy publicly alleged fraud then in the related court proceedings, did not alleged the same fraud.

Dominion makes a pretty good case in their filing that Rudy knew his sources were not reliable and so he avoided making those same accusations in court. They also show multiple examples of Rudy publicly making these fraud claims on his show while selling products like cigars and cyber security services. "just use the code word 'rudy' to get 20% off your purchase."

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#810

Post by lawnchair_larry »

Pxtl wrote: post #528
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think those are fake links to stanford law on his site? The sources are of equal validity regardless of the messenger.

Do you regularly find yourself relying on a Gish Gallop of information provided by pathological liars to support your theses?

You must have replied to the wrong comment. I didn’t present a thesis.
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