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Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

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Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#41

Post by TeaDrunk »

alisonkisk wrote: post #20
DanBC wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could re-write > Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is characterized by [...] restricted interests and repetitive behaviors. as > ASD is characterized by an ability to focus intently on an area of special interest, developing an unusually detailed level of knowledge of that topic. There's always a tension with efforts to depathologise things, because some people do need support and the way they get support at the mome…

Even more neutral would be to call it Autism Spectrum or Autism Spectrum Condition, not "Disorder". "Disorder" is a medical term for "badness", especially weird to apply to a condition that is notable for its extreme mental... orderliness.

I never understood autism to be noted for extreme orderliness in all cases. Orderliness from what I understand is just one of multiple possible symptoms that, collectively, are termed as autism.

(You can be extremely orderly and not have autism, for example, if you had Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder which is different from the more familiar OCD.)

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#42

Post by iujjkfjdkkdkf »

alisonkisk wrote: post #18
tokai wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems neutral to me. If there wasn't any impairment it wouldn't be a subject for medical psychiatry.

"behavioral impairment" is a social judgement, not a biological flaw. Homosexuality was long considered a psychiatric disorder, so be careful putting blind faith in psychiatric judgements.

I feel obliged to point out that when people try and equate behavior that is completely within the bounds of what society considers normal (being gay) with what can be a crippling and life affecting condition, it does nobody a service. Anymore than e.g. saying red hair used to be a sign of weakness, outdated views have no bearing on this discussion. Just because outdated views once existed and that normal behavior is now normal does not mean that we shouldn't label impairments as such in order to try and understand and help those affected by them.

Edit: very interested in feedback on why this either rubbed some people the wrong way or was perceived as a negative contribution to the discussion

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#43

Post by dragonwriter »

SargeZT wrote: post #32
rsstack wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people with ASD (not all! not most! but many) can barely survive on their own. I'm not talking about "too shy to buy groceries". ASD should be prevented medically. That is not to say people with ASD aren't often amazing people or that their lives aren't worth it, but minimizing the rate at which ASD occurs will mean far fewer people will suffer in the future from something that is (hopefully) preventable.

Barely can be an understatement. My youngest sister is severely autistic and absolutely couldn't survive without a strong support system, both from the state and our family. She lives in a group home with 19 other people in a similar state. With that said, due to my exposure to autism through my sister, I have seen cases that are far worse than hers. Completely non-verbal people with autism, those who experience pani…

> We tend to focus on the lighter end of the spectrum, where people can lead functional and fulfilling lives.

There's a form of survivorship bias here: the greater the degree of impairment, the less broad social contacts the person is likely to have, so on average most people's experience is going to have people who have less severe impairments overrepresented compared to their relative frequency among those with the diagnosis.

And I'm sure most people that think about the issue recognize that on an intellectual level, but it's still difficult to tune out the effect that has on one’s “gut feeling” about the subject.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#44

Post by hobos_delight »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #40
hobos_delight wrote: post #39

For anyone interested in the history of ASD, I highly recommend the book NeuroTribes [1] - I read this shortly after my son was diagnosed with ASD and it goes through a lot of history, up to the most recent DSM V definition. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeuroTribes

I agree, and own the book, and have had lunch with the author, but I would just add that NeuroTribes represents a very opinionated take on autism that has some sharp critics.

Yes, thank you for the addition.

The book was the first thing I read after we received the diagnosis for my son - although a friend had recommended it prior to this.

It also helped me as person feel less different and accepting of myself (I do not have an ASD diagnosis).

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#45

Post by nicoburns »

rsstack wrote: post #15
DanBC wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could re-write > Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is characterized by [...] restricted interests and repetitive behaviors. as > ASD is characterized by an ability to focus intently on an area of special interest, developing an unusually detailed level of knowledge of that topic. There's always a tension with efforts to depathologise things, because some people do need support and the way they get support at the mome…

> ASD is characterized by an ability to focus intently on an area of special interest, developing an unusually detailed level of knowledge of that topic. However, this is not true. It doesn't apply to all people with ASD. I volunteered with adults with ASD about ten years ago. One person in the group really had a special interest fixation (a person), but he didn't know more than the average person would know after re…

The negative characteristics don't apply to everyone with ASD either.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#46

Post by dragonwriter »

alisonkisk wrote: post #18
tokai wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems neutral to me. If there wasn't any impairment it wouldn't be a subject for medical psychiatry.

"behavioral impairment" is a social judgement, not a biological flaw. Homosexuality was long considered a psychiatric disorder, so be careful putting blind faith in psychiatric judgements.

> "behavioral impairment" is a social judgement, not a biological flaw.

Yes, pretty much all of modern psychiatric diagnosis are explicitly diagnosing a combination of inability to succeed in the concrete social conditions one finds oneself in combined with concurrent behavioral or other symptoms, not “biological flaws”. (Which, incidentally, would also be subjective judgments; biological features are objective, that an objective feature is a flaw is a subjective judgement call.)

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#47

Post by TeMPOraL »

lc9er wrote: post #38
JPKab wrote: post #7

Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. My nephew is autistic. He is my sister's youngest, and is 10 years younger than his sibling. This isn't a coincidence. Parents who have their children in their mid 30s and later are orders of magnitude more lik…

> Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. I thought this was common knowledge? I’ve certainly read this frequently and it’s something that is brought up (anecdotally) by OB/GYNs as women enter their 30’s. My wife and several family members ruefully w…

Perhaps not common enough. For instance, both my wife and I knew about the ~35 point of "advanced maternal age" and that there are risks associated with late conception, but it's the first time I hear autism is one of these risks.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#48

Post by dragonwriter »

throwaway2245 wrote: post #27
tokai wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems neutral to me. If there wasn't any impairment it wouldn't be a subject for medical psychiatry.

It might be neutral if they listed specific attributes (or said the word 'attribute' rather than 'impairment'). Saying only 'impairment' implies that all attributes associated with autism are negative compared to some mythical baseline, and creates a circular definition which stigmatises autistic people.

> Saying only 'impairment' implies that all attributes associated with autism are negative

The ones that are diagnostic (except those that are about ruling out other diagnoses) are. If we understood the mechanism enough to identify anything other than observed dysfunction, that might be different.

And, yes, like virtually every mental disease, the negative attributes are defined in reference to the concrete social context in which the individual exists, and could equally be viewed as problems with society. That's a problem for a different domain than the medical though.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#49

Post by 0b01 »

JPKab wrote: post #7

Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. My nephew is autistic. He is my sister's youngest, and is 10 years younger than his sibling. This isn't a coincidence. Parents who have their children in their mid 30s and later are orders of magnitude more lik…

Autism is a slow life history spectrum disorder. You can read more about this theory in evopsych by looking up M Del Giudice papers.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#50

Post by ryanmarsh »

hobos_delight wrote: post #39

For anyone interested in the history of ASD, I highly recommend the book NeuroTribes [1] - I read this shortly after my son was diagnosed with ASD and it goes through a lot of history, up to the most recent DSM V definition. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeuroTribes

Just diagnosed ASD at age 42. So I bought this book. Very enlightening.
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