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East Coast Internet Outage

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Re: East Coast Internet Outage

#151

Post by amarshall »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #145
Animats wrote: post #95

Too much is failing from single point outages. The FCC may have to establish standards to prevent over-centralization. In the entire history of the Bell System, no electromechanical central office was ever down for more than 30 minutes for any reason than a natural disaster or, one occasion, a major file. That record has not been maintained in the Internet era.

The Bell System's job was to operate a nationwide telephone system for voice, not high-speed data. Even then, you only had one path to the telephone CO and only one CO it could go to. Outages were rare because voice-grade wire is cheap and all the complexity is handled by the CO. Also, while my Internet may have outages from time to time, I can't recall the last time I couldn't use my cell phone other than being in a…

Natural disasters sometimes take out cellular service in large areas. Definitely happened for several days during Hurricane Sandy in NY.

Re: East Coast Internet Outage

#152

Post by t0mbstone »

carewornalien wrote: post #137

Yes, large carriers can't do much when the backhoe strikes.. it happens.. they'll fix it.. and we'll all go on with our lives..

I thought the whole point of the internet and protocols like TCP/IP is that it's supposed to be fault tolerant and traffic is supposed to automatically re-route. Seems kind of weird how a single cable being cut can cause half the country to lose internet...

Re: East Coast Internet Outage

#153

Post by hnuser123456 »

ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #146
hnuser123456 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60-70 gigabits per second for $40/month? Guessing you mean megabits. Not worth being packet inspected. 1gbit on comcast seems to give 42 mbps upload, was 50 a few months ago. ~$80/mo edit: hitting 48-50 mbps again today, sweet

Comcast "gigabit" is a lie. I reliably get 900mb down and 900mb up with Verizon in DC.

The download isn't a lie and it's what they advertise. I was getting 800mbps before I updated my home router from a 2014 model to a 2020 one, now I hit 950-960. I wish the upload was symmetric, but I understand that's not always possible on copper, getting about 50 now. Not bad for a ~50-year-old apartment.

Re: East Coast Internet Outage

#154

Post by Brendinooo »

Jonnax wrote: post #105

The FCC said that 3mbps upload speed is all internet users need. They might not be in tune with modern internet usage https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/21/22242635/fcc-ajit-pai-int...

> “We find that the current speed benchmark of 25/3 Mbps remains an appropriate measure by which to assess whether a fixed service is providing advanced telecommunications capability,” the report reads.

Not "3mbps upload speed is all internet users need".

Re: East Coast Internet Outage

#155

Post by tenacious_tuna »

t0mbstone wrote: post #152
carewornalien wrote: post #137

Yes, large carriers can't do much when the backhoe strikes.. it happens.. they'll fix it.. and we'll all go on with our lives..

I thought the whole point of the internet and protocols like TCP/IP is that it's supposed to be fault tolerant and traffic is supposed to automatically re-route. Seems kind of weird how a single cable being cut can cause half the country to lose internet...

I wonder how much has to do with the cost-optimization pressure on a private carrier. Building robust infrastructure is only valuable to them insofar as it enables them to continue to earn money. Reliable service for the sake of reliable service--especially to residential regions--is a non-starter.

Less pessimistically, it's possible that the regions that're affected have natural "choke points" for infrastructure, either moving through the mountains or along highways, etc., which of course leads to a single-point-of-failure, though it may be unlikely.

Re: East Coast Internet Outage

#156

Post by lotsofpulp »

rayiner wrote: post #147
lotsofpulp wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen Comcast offer fiber, except to businesses at astronomical costs. I can't even find it on their website. Do they advertise upload bandwidth for their fiber?

https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/requirements-to-run... It’s actually 3g up and down. It’s 10 gig Metro-E into a Juniper switch, with a 1g port and 10g port throttled to 2g.

That’s awesome! How much is that, if you don’t mind sharing?

I wish they had it in more places.

Re: East Coast Internet Outage

#157

Post by lotsofpulp »

Brendinooo wrote: post #154
Jonnax wrote: post #105

The FCC said that 3mbps upload speed is all internet users need. They might not be in tune with modern internet usage https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/21/22242635/fcc-ajit-pai-int...

> “We find that the current speed benchmark of 25/3 Mbps remains an appropriate measure by which to assess whether a fixed service is providing advanced telecommunications capability,” the report reads. Not "3mbps upload speed is all internet users need".

That’s effectively the same thing, otherwise I don’t see the purpose of that statement.

Re: East Coast Internet Outage

#158

Post by mikem170 »

jeremyjh wrote: post #128
mlyle wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, for clarity, it's never one fiber line being cut. It's a big massive bundle of fiber carrying different circuits for different carriers different places that were run in the same trench and all got cut at once. Then they get to dig it out better and someone gets to get down in the hole and figure out which piece of fiber needs to be spliced to which other one. Because of DWDM, some of those individual fibers may…

This. Even if you have redundant lines with multiple providers there is a good chance they are part of the same fiber bundle. It can be really difficult to get providers to admit who they are leasing from and what the physical runs are.

And then telco's may move leased fiber to other paths without telling customers, messing up the physical redundancy they thought they had...

Re: East Coast Internet Outage

#159

Post by [deleted] »

arthurcolle wrote: post #85

I was just about to call FiOS to switch from Xfinity because these data caps are absolutely ridiculous. I am sad now. Aside: Comcast, wtf? 1.2 TB limit per month? Seriously if anyone works at Comcast know that I hate your company with an overwhelming passion.

[deleted]

Re: East Coast Internet Outage

#160

Post by icedchai »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #145
Animats wrote: post #95

Too much is failing from single point outages. The FCC may have to establish standards to prevent over-centralization. In the entire history of the Bell System, no electromechanical central office was ever down for more than 30 minutes for any reason than a natural disaster or, one occasion, a major file. That record has not been maintained in the Internet era.

The Bell System's job was to operate a nationwide telephone system for voice, not high-speed data. Even then, you only had one path to the telephone CO and only one CO it could go to. Outages were rare because voice-grade wire is cheap and all the complexity is handled by the CO. Also, while my Internet may have outages from time to time, I can't recall the last time I couldn't use my cell phone other than being in a…

Most of the early internet piggy backed on the bell system: 56k, T1, T3 lines, frame relay, ISDN... and of course dialup.
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