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Technology Is Taking Jobs Away, But Here’s How It Might Give Them Back

xconomy.com

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Re: Technology Is Taking Jobs Away, But Here’s How It Might Give Them Back

#11
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another absolutely classic example of both the "lump of labor fallacy" and "make work bias". When are we going to starting teaching more Economics and less Literature in high school?

That's true. We should also teach how to present a valid, explanatory counterargument instead of thoughtless one liner.

Wow, you should be embarrassed. Read the rest of the comments and see my real reply to the original article - posted 10 minutes before yours.

It's also hilarious that this comment commits the very fallacy you seek to expose!

Re: Technology Is Taking Jobs Away, But Here’s How It Might Give Them Back

#12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. We should also teach how to present a valid, explanatory counterargument instead of thoughtless one liner.

Wow, you should be embarrassed. Read the rest of the comments and see my real reply to the original article - posted 10 minutes before yours. It's also hilarious that this comment commits the very fallacy you seek to expose!

Your reply was regarding efficiency. My reply has to do with free. Let me put it in an example. Electric cars are more efficient than gas vehicles. So consumers switch to electric cars. Those workers whose jobs were rendered useless transitioned into higher knowledge jobs in the electric cars industry. There might be more jobs in the new industry. And customers will likely pay the same amount for the new electric cars (IMPORTANT: demand, the willingness to pay for said utility, still exists). So net loss is neglible. As for the oil/gas industry, the consumer pays for less oil/gas for their cars, so the oil/gas industry switches market to focus on other utilities for their oil/gas.

On the other hand, if the electric cars were free !? People would not have to buy cars ever anymore. Therefore an existing market was destroyed.

But I don't have to explain this to you, you spent lots of money on your economic classes!

Re: Technology Is Taking Jobs Away, But Here’s How It Might Give Them Back

#13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you should be embarrassed. Read the rest of the comments and see my real reply to the original article - posted 10 minutes before yours. It's also hilarious that this comment commits the very fallacy you seek to expose!

Your reply was regarding efficiency. My reply has to do with free. Let me put it in an example. Electric cars are more efficient than gas vehicles. So consumers switch to electric cars. Those workers whose jobs were rendered useless transitioned into higher knowledge jobs in the electric cars industry. There might be more jobs in the new industry. And customers will likely pay the same amount for the new electric car…

In theory, all those jobless people would now also not need to buy cars and could spend the savings on learning a how to do the new jobs created by all that extra money that's being spent on stuff besides cars.

In reality, changing careers is hard. Fortunately the government supports this some with low-interest loans, unemployment benefits, etc. Yet evidently it's not enough.

Re: Technology Is Taking Jobs Away, But Here’s How It Might Give Them Back

#14
Its good technology is taking away jobs, if it is not, that means we are all doing something really really wrong.

Who in their right minds would like to do things just to do more things? People always come up with new things so they can stop doing what they are doing. Lazy programmers are the best, the ones that dont want to do things when a computer can do it for them.

People should stop working. We have enough technology to feed everyone on the planet, and maintain and develop our current rate of progress, even without aiming for full employment. We have to strive for lesser work days. Why is 8 hours acceptable? We are designed to work only 2 hours per day, maximum. That is why we invent.

Re: Technology Is Taking Jobs Away, But Here’s How It Might Give Them Back

#15

technology doesn't take jobs away. humans can repurpose, roombas can't.

Technology must take jobs away.

Invent something, do something, so you never have to do it again, or any one else. Enjoy life. Meet people, talk about ideas and new inventions, if you like programming all day, do it. If you like singing and dancing all day do it. If you like making movies, giving healthcare to people do it. Unconstrained by employment.

Re: Technology Is Taking Jobs Away, But Here’s How It Might Give Them Back

#16
The problem as I see it (and I've probably said this before) is that not all jobs are equal... or rather that not all people are equal. Increasing technology doesn't take away jobs, it increases the amount of wealth you can create with the same amount of labour, at least up to a certain point. But it also makes the jobs that do exist harder (intellectually speaking), because as the jobs switch from "assembly line worker" to "guy who supervises the robots that work on the assembly line" the brainpower needed to do the job increases.

Roughly half the population has two-digit IQs, half the population has three-digit IQs. Two thousand years ago, 90% of all jobs were in the fields and could easily be done with a two-digit IQ. A hundred years ago, jobs had started to shift to the cities, but probably still 75% of 'em could be done with a two-digit IQ. Nowadays I'm worried that we're reaching the point where 60% of the jobs which actually and economically exist require a three-digit IQ to be done properly, and that this will only continue to increase as the easy jobs get automated away. What, then, do we do with the world's stupid people?

Re: Technology Is Taking Jobs Away, But Here’s How It Might Give Them Back

#17
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you should be embarrassed. Read the rest of the comments and see my real reply to the original article - posted 10 minutes before yours. It's also hilarious that this comment commits the very fallacy you seek to expose!

Your reply was regarding efficiency. My reply has to do with free. Let me put it in an example. Electric cars are more efficient than gas vehicles. So consumers switch to electric cars. Those workers whose jobs were rendered useless transitioned into higher knowledge jobs in the electric cars industry. There might be more jobs in the new industry. And customers will likely pay the same amount for the new electric car…

I'm not even sure where to begin on your confusion here.

1. Firstly, efficiency concerns the ability to more with less. Zero is less, and there's no reason why zero is substantively different than paying $0.01 per car - it's on a continuity that affords the same analysis. So saying you reply "has to do with free" speaks absolutely nothing about my initial arguments focused on efficiency.

2. Money is a veil. Like the discredited mercantilist beliefs century ago, you're confusing output with money. What matters for prosperity is the quantity of goods and services being produced in an economy. You may not realize it, but your argument is essentially granting authority of money over output in estimating prosperity. Output - the actual goods and services produced in an economy - is what matters (and the consumption we enjoy therefrom), not whatever dollar value we assign to them. This by the way is an extremely common confusion among non-economists, so don't feel bad about misunderstanding it.

3. Since you seem so fixated on this concept of "free" sidestepping my arguments, let me take your analogy and present another similar one. Imagine that it's the year 1910 and the price for buggy whips is $25, with a thriving industry producing them. It's already clear that I'm claiming efficiency improvements resulting in a price reduction is a good thing. Now let's introduce your concern: buggy whips are free! "Therefore an existing market was destroyed." Yes, this market would be destroyed. And in fact it was - buggy whips were free in the sense that cars displacing buggies simply did not require them. There is no economic difference here. Yet no one with the knowledge of hindsight today wouldn't even think about arguing that the production of value which is essentially "free" in that case is something "bad", and it's not clear whatsoever that there is some net decline in jobs (in fact all evidence points to this being precisely the opposite - touched upon by your point "There might be more jobs in the new industry").

4. Speaking of net decline in jobs, I'm disputing this being necessarily a problem at all. To say otherwise is to ignore trade-offs and categorically value one thing over another as a society. Jobs are another thing people routinely confuse with prosperity, and they also tend to believe that they are somehow assets instead of transactions. It's like saying "buying a car" is an asset, instead of the car itself. With labor, the software we produce is the asset, not our job that allows such production to take place via a quid-pro-quo. If I could purchase everything I wanted to live by for $1, I'd only work one hour the entire year doing some freelance, and not have a job. Is "not having a job" bad in that sense? Not really - but the point is it depends on the amount of consumption I'm able to enjoy, and the job is just a transaction that effectively grants me consumption purchasing power. It's the seen vs. the unseen that makes thinking about these issues (and really most things in economics) very difficult.

5. You made an important point about willingness to pay, but drew the wrong lesson from it. You seem to think that having a high willingness to pay and a low price ($0 in your example) is a bad thing, but this is precisely the opposite of the truth. In fact this is the very definition of "Consumer Surplus", the net increase of which is a good thing. See my point (1) concerning actual output/consumption being what matters.

6. Really this all boils down to your closing argument, "Therefore an existing market was destroyed", and focusing on some costs and benefits while completely ignoring others. Whether or not destruction of any particular industry is good or bad is not relevant unless you fully account for all costs/benefits. Actual accounting for this empirically is difficult, but axiomatic economics shows that advances in efficiency and producing more with less is precisely the way growth occurs - a net benefit.

To fully explore all the issues here would require much longer. Hence is the simple fact that making nonsense claims takes one paragraph and carefully explaining the often non-intuitive economists implicit in such claims takes 10x as long. Sounds like some debate asymmetry if there ever was any.

Re: Technology Is Taking Jobs Away, But Here’s How It Might Give Them Back

#20

technology doesn't take jobs away. humans can repurpose, roombas can't.

Technology must take jobs away. Invent something, do something, so you never have to do it again, or any one else. Enjoy life. Meet people, talk about ideas and new inventions, if you like programming all day, do it. If you like singing and dancing all day do it. If you like making movies, giving healthcare to people do it. Unconstrained by employment.

Agreed; the (possibly impossible) goal of any sensible government should be full unemployment.
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